curious what you think it was that Clinton/Obama did. the actions and repercussions of Obama (and Clinton for that matter tbh) is a bit of a gray area for me that I’m not super knowledgeable on beyond the big talking points.
Honestly no idea, i just put it at them because Clinton came in after the USSR was gone and kinda did the shock doctrine thing thing in the east.
Bush seemed to be too much of a yokel, only really pulling that whole “coalition of the willing” thing. Didn’t seem like he really advanced the sublimation of the EU that much.
Obama comes around and gets the PRISM/5 eyes thing going and I gotta be honest I blame everything Joe did in Europa on Obama as well, because I cannot imagine them going along if he didn’t have that “HOPE” shine. The whole NSA Snowden leak should’ve been a massive deal. It revealed the US spied and wiretapped the offices of European leaders. But it wasn’t. It was just laughed away. Don’t think it would’ve been under Bush, Hillary or Trump. But it was under Obama.
Under Trump 1 several European states started seriously arguing for a European army. Trump 2 it seems like they’re not though. Now they’re just going along to get along or something. Real Gorbachev vibes.
I dunno a lot about it, it’s completely vibes based. Seems to me like the EU member nations really admired Obama. Thought he was cool. Clinton did eastern Europe.
It’s not like other presidents didn’t also do stuff, moreso the whole “getting the lambs to slaughter themselves” kinda thing. Joe Biden too i guess, but that guy is a rotting corpse so it doesn’t fit with my vibes analysis so I choose to ignore it, as is good academic practice.
curious what you think it was that Clinton/Obama did. the actions and repercussions of Obama (and Clinton for that matter tbh) is a bit of a gray area for me that I’m not super knowledgeable on beyond the big talking points.
Clinton decided not to read the benefits of the collapse of the Soviet union.
Obama was the first to put pressure on Europeans to raise their defense budgets.
Honestly no idea, i just put it at them because Clinton came in after the USSR was gone and kinda did the shock doctrine thing thing in the east.
Bush seemed to be too much of a yokel, only really pulling that whole “coalition of the willing” thing. Didn’t seem like he really advanced the sublimation of the EU that much.
Obama comes around and gets the PRISM/5 eyes thing going and I gotta be honest I blame everything Joe did in Europa on Obama as well, because I cannot imagine them going along if he didn’t have that “HOPE” shine. The whole NSA Snowden leak should’ve been a massive deal. It revealed the US spied and wiretapped the offices of European leaders. But it wasn’t. It was just laughed away. Don’t think it would’ve been under Bush, Hillary or Trump. But it was under Obama.
Under Trump 1 several European states started seriously arguing for a European army. Trump 2 it seems like they’re not though. Now they’re just going along to get along or something. Real Gorbachev vibes.
I dunno a lot about it, it’s completely vibes based. Seems to me like the EU member nations really admired Obama. Thought he was cool. Clinton did eastern Europe.
It’s not like other presidents didn’t also do stuff, moreso the whole “getting the lambs to slaughter themselves” kinda thing. Joe Biden too i guess, but that guy is a rotting corpse so it doesn’t fit with my vibes analysis so I choose to ignore it, as is good academic practice.