Yes, and I’m saying there are prominent feminist voices advocating for specific approaches and helping boys navigate the world, with only incidental benefits to women (who avoid being abused by those men). They’re publishing books, running workshops, providing online resources for these specific things.
Feminist organizations dedicated to protecting women’s reproductive rights are also distributing condoms that go on penises, even for men fucking other men.
Maybe they are motivated by the “knock on” effects on women, but it’s very clear that feminist organizations and advocates are doing things to address problems that only affect men and boys.
I am posing the hypothetical question
I’m talking about actual things we’re doing, not just hypotheticals.
I’m mainly arguing against a narrow view where addressing problems is thought in terms of the demographic identity of the recipient of that help. Organizations try to tackle problems, and trying to gender code the problems and solutions I think is counterproductive.
Are you asking feminists to stop helping men or something? I’m describing how feminist groups and organizations help men. The organizations they work for usually don’t have gendered names, and even when they do, they tend to take on specific causes regardless of gender, because those causes are themselves important for elevating women’s status towards equality.
The ACLU’s Women’s Rights Project, co-founded and operated by prominent feminist Ruth Bader Ginsburg, did some big work in the 70’s, and their goal was to elevate women by fighting for gender equality, including (and perhaps especially) when men were the victims of discrimination. Craig v. Boren was probably the most famous example of their work on that front, where the Supreme Court struck down a higher drinking age for men in Oklahoma.
So it seems to me that you’re pivoting away from “but why don’t they help men” argument to fussing about the way they name themselves. The name is the name. I’m a feminist, I volunteer for feminist organizations, for important causes for women, in a way that often helps men directly.
So it seems to me that you’re pivoting away from “but why don’t they help men” argument to fussing about the way they name themselves
Just to point out I’ve only commented once in the thread above, I’m not the same person you were originally replying to.
Are you asking feminists to stop helping men or something?
No, of course not. I’m just pointing out how the name of the movement ‘feminism’ is gender coded, which is ironic considering your earlier statement about not gender coding solutions and stuff
Just to point out I’ve only commented once in the thread above, I’m not the same person you were originally replying to.
Whoops, my bad. That does fundamentally change the nature of your comment, I apologize. My criticism was off base.
My broader point is that I am fully aware of the fact that many feminist organizations intentionally and strategically attack problems that affect men motivated out of a bigger picture issue that primarily affects women. And that many feminist people and organizations choose to take on multiple issues, only some of which might be considered feminist causes. But as a whole, I think it’s unfair to insinuate that feminists (either individuals or organized into organizations) don’t care to devote resources to helping men. And that’s the main thrust of what I’m getting at.
Fair enough. I don’t disagree with any of what you’ve said, I just think they’d save themselves and everybody else a lot of pain if the name of the movement was more gender neutral.
Yes, and I’m saying there are prominent feminist voices advocating for specific approaches and helping boys navigate the world, with only incidental benefits to women (who avoid being abused by those men). They’re publishing books, running workshops, providing online resources for these specific things.
Feminist organizations dedicated to protecting women’s reproductive rights are also distributing condoms that go on penises, even for men fucking other men.
Maybe they are motivated by the “knock on” effects on women, but it’s very clear that feminist organizations and advocates are doing things to address problems that only affect men and boys.
I’m talking about actual things we’re doing, not just hypotheticals.
I’m mainly arguing against a narrow view where addressing problems is thought in terms of the demographic identity of the recipient of that help. Organizations try to tackle problems, and trying to gender code the problems and solutions I think is counterproductive.
Then why are we gender coding the name of the movement?
Are you asking feminists to stop helping men or something? I’m describing how feminist groups and organizations help men. The organizations they work for usually don’t have gendered names, and even when they do, they tend to take on specific causes regardless of gender, because those causes are themselves important for elevating women’s status towards equality.
The ACLU’s Women’s Rights Project, co-founded and operated by prominent feminist Ruth Bader Ginsburg, did some big work in the 70’s, and their goal was to elevate women by fighting for gender equality, including (and perhaps especially) when men were the victims of discrimination. Craig v. Boren was probably the most famous example of their work on that front, where the Supreme Court struck down a higher drinking age for men in Oklahoma.
So it seems to me that you’re pivoting away from “but why don’t they help men” argument to fussing about the way they name themselves. The name is the name. I’m a feminist, I volunteer for feminist organizations, for important causes for women, in a way that often helps men directly.
Just to point out I’ve only commented once in the thread above, I’m not the same person you were originally replying to.
No, of course not. I’m just pointing out how the name of the movement ‘feminism’ is gender coded, which is ironic considering your earlier statement about not gender coding solutions and stuff
Whoops, my bad. That does fundamentally change the nature of your comment, I apologize. My criticism was off base.
My broader point is that I am fully aware of the fact that many feminist organizations intentionally and strategically attack problems that affect men motivated out of a bigger picture issue that primarily affects women. And that many feminist people and organizations choose to take on multiple issues, only some of which might be considered feminist causes. But as a whole, I think it’s unfair to insinuate that feminists (either individuals or organized into organizations) don’t care to devote resources to helping men. And that’s the main thrust of what I’m getting at.
Fair enough. I don’t disagree with any of what you’ve said, I just think they’d save themselves and everybody else a lot of pain if the name of the movement was more gender neutral.