https://figshare.unimelb.edu.au/articles/report/Misogyny_Online_Radicalisation_and_Youth_Extremism_in_Australia/33250176?file=67531593

Chapter 2 is where the interesting stuff is, they assessed people for misogynistic attitudes, and also political ones they deem extreme. They classify left wing extremism as indicated by:

  1. The rich will not give up their wealth easily. Organised violence, including against people, is the only way to make things fair for everyone.

  2. Capitalism is ruining the world and should be resisted with violence

Without getting distracted by a discussion of the um curious decision to classify that in the same way as beliefs like murdering people who wont fuck me is a cool and good I think it’s an interesting result.

Misogyny in left-wing spaces is real, and this survey indicates it’s not automatically less prevalent than in right wing spaces (although particular attitudes may differ). Despite shit like patriarchy and control of women being recognised as a problematic root of oppression by many prominent theorists (e.g. engles on the origin of class relations).

Something I think we should all think about.

Also at least Aussie gen z’ers seem a bit fucking cooked here, how do boomers have better attitudes about forcing sex on your wife than gen z women? wat is going on? I wonder if some of this can be explained through inexperience, but there is a stark difference between older and younger people. Also much less than between men and women than I would have expected.

Why are we failing to reach kids compared to the right wing here?

  • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.netEnglish
    31·
    24 days ago

    for a very long time mainstream (i.e. liberal, white) feminists only came with a list of what not to do and that is incomplete and unhelpful unless your vision of protecting young straight women from their peers is to paralyze the reachable cohort and do nothing at all to reach or change the young men who only hear from PUA/manosphere chuds.

    excusing zero of his faults, dan savage actually kinda met the moment 20+ years ago but i can’t in good conscience recommend him to a nephew or younger cousin anymore and that’s been the case for a while.

      • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.netEnglish
        21·
        23 days ago

        At the risk of being snarky, i could swear even liberal, white feminists have told men what they expect them to do, back in the day even they had demands like “spend more time with your kids” or “don’t always let your wife do the dishes” or “equal pay for equal work.” Granted, i have to guess what you mean with your complaint about feminism being “incomplete and unhelpful”, so maybe you expect women to write a complete protocol for men on how to flirt without being sex pests or something like that.

        i was speaking to dating advice for like 14-early 20s year olds, which those three do not apply very much now do they?

        It is … interesting that it’s the task of feminists to single-handedly define fo

        are you on some “there are no male feminists” thing? that’s fine but i would include somebody like PZ Myers in the “only don’ts” crowd. Fred Rogers wasn’t talking to teens. If any of the alleged non-toxic masculinity role models had anything to say on the subject it wasn’t getting any reach in the era before we stopped calling it a “weblog” instead of a blog.

        But i forgot that patriarchy is an extractive system that unloads unprofitable labor on women so we do it for free. So of course it is up to us to reinvent masculinity.

        damn you just medaled in the olympic long jump.

        Maybe establishing what men shouldn’t do is more important to me because it directly relates to my security and sexual autonomy

        no argument here, i’ve said before that it’s understandable why that was the predominant discourse and it’s absolutely right to have that priority. but once someone has mastered the do nots, they’re left not knowing what to do and that leaves the vacuum.

        part of the problem is that these guys are asking an impossible question, but we need to offer an alternative otherwise there’s no defense against the andrews taint.

          • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.netEnglish
            2·
            23 days ago

            yeah, a lot of that is easier said than done. Narrowing your pool to a tiny subgroup isn’t a good way to meet more people, my hard line now is masking in indoor places and it’s been years since i’ve even laid eyes on someone of any gender, let alone any preferences or propriety like not hitting on people at their job.

            tbh lasting friendships are probably harder than romance. you spend so much more time with a partner and on three chat messages once a month you’ll die of old age before building anything.

              • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.netEnglish
                2·
                22 days ago

                i really did mean romance, not hookup. if you’re upfront about things being a date even if you’re not trying to fuck after the first one, it still comes with the implication that you’re (potentially, anyway) much more invested in maintaining a relationship. Compare that to the friends i’ve seen once or twice a week for several years and then disappear forever when somebody moves or loses interest in the common hobby.

                or if you want to say those weren’t friends, then i’ve literally never had a friend who wasn’t also a partner and i’d stand by my musing.

    • PKMKII [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      3·
      24 days ago

      excusing zero of his faults, dan savage actually kinda met the moment 20+ years ago but i can’t in good conscience recommend him to a nephew or younger cousin anymore and that’s been the case for a while.

      OOTL, what happened with Dan Savage to make him problematic?

      • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.netEnglish
        4·
        23 days ago

        i don’t think there was a specific scandal but he falls short on a bunch of stuff and he was going on bill maher’s show a lot. there’s some tumblr that was obsessively keeping track of every slight but i don’t have time for that shit.