Can you find a single source that shows Venezuela gains anything from this deal other than privately-owned infrastructure being located in its territory? I can’t, and I’ve been searching for over an hour.
I commented elsewhere in this thread that venezuela’s leadership projects 202 billion from this project, per telesur
if you can’t prove they are getting nothing and are compradors why are you saying it? that is liberal idealism, making shit up because it fits the narrative in your head instead of basing it on what it really verifiable
aside from the infrastructure investment, the income for workers, the protection from US bombing and blocking all oil exports, the increased access to global trade in general, they do get at least some revenue for the oil directly. these are all benefits of the compromises they have made, which are unfortunately the best case and most tactical choices they can eek out in a really awful situation.
I don’t want to disparage the victims of this exchange for making calculated decisions to preserve maximum lives and potential for maintaining a functioning socialist project. if you really look at all the info we have about the situation, I still have no reason to believe there are any compradors among PSUV, which is why they have continued to show a level of top down solidarity rarely seen.
of course people are pissed about what is happening, but they aren’t blaming people within their movement or fracturing yet. once that happens, obviously we always side with the people, but right now the chavistas on the ground are still pretty much entirely behind Delcy. look to Bolivia for a very recent and salient comparison of what it would look like in venezuela the moment the grassroots detect compradors have taken power of the state.
Of course you can’t trust the US government to not go back on their agreement, but at the moment Venezuela is selling oil again, which was not possible during the US blockade, and are not getting bombed, and they have no leverage to stop those things outside of diplomacy, so thats what they are doing. If Venezuela had a straight of hormuz or a domestic drone production industry they could potentially have some way to push back but without that a tactical defeat is better than widespread death and destruction
I don’t want to disparage the victims of this exchange for making calculated decisions to preserve maximum lives and potential for maintaining a functioning socialist project.
Nah you are really selling us on the benefits of US imperialism
Then I look to you to have a revolution and end US imperialism if you want the Venezuelan people to be free. They already had their revolution and have tens of thousands of communes actively organizing and struggling for their people. If everyone who organized on hexbear got together they wouldn’t even make up the size of one Venezuelan commune, nor would they have a single chavista’s courage or experience
I’m not blaming the venezuelan people for not fighting a fight they can’t win but jumping straight to talking the “huge benefits” really rubs me the wrong way. Just chalk it up as an L.
Talking about the many benefits has the same energy as when libs talk about how colonialism actually was a big benefit to the colonialized people because it civilized the savages.
I didn’t say they were huge benefits, the other user said they were getting “nothing in exchange” and I was listing several things they do get. I definitely wouldn’t say they are huge benefits on their own but if the alternative is total economic blockade and the majority of their infrastructure destroyed and millions of dead Venezuelans, it does seem like they got the best outcome available.
Many people here are libs and don’t understand Marxism even a little bit. They read a headline and form the entirety of their opinions based on it. They do no research into the topics they discuss and then pretend to have well formed thoughts. They don’t understand the dialectical nature of reality, they see two steps back as a total defeat instead of a setback on the path of progress. This is just one more phase in a multi generational struggle.
If you compare Venezuela to what happened in syria, bolvia, Colombia and others, it is clear that the chavistas haven’t been totally defeated despite this recent tactical defeat. I would even hold out on saying Bolivian and Colombian revolutionaries are defeated (unlike syria which definitely is), but the Venezuelan project was many times more established and cemented in the masses than Colombia and even Bolivia
There are more intellectual ways to talk about it but ultimately I think my analogy to to talk about it like getting robbed at gun point is quite precise. The advantage of handing over your wallet when you are getting robbed is not a big mystery.
Dunno what to tell you, I spent legitimately over an hour trying to find information on this deal and the one site that apparently had any was the one that won’t open in my browser.
It’s famously easy to prove negatives.
Can you find a single source that shows Venezuela gains anything from this deal other than privately-owned infrastructure being located in its territory? I can’t, and I’ve been searching for over an hour.
I commented elsewhere in this thread that venezuela’s leadership projects 202 billion from this project, per telesur
if you can’t prove they are getting nothing and are compradors why are you saying it? that is liberal idealism, making shit up because it fits the narrative in your head instead of basing it on what it really verifiable
I see. That’s the projected tax revenue on the other 45% of the oil reserves which the US doesn’t claim.
So, Venezuela’s gain is the potential tax revenue on privately extracted oil and income taxes for employees.
Telesur’s site won’t load for me, and I just get a 413 error. Never seen that on a news site before.
aside from the infrastructure investment, the income for workers, the protection from US bombing and blocking all oil exports, the increased access to global trade in general, they do get at least some revenue for the oil directly. these are all benefits of the compromises they have made, which are unfortunately the best case and most tactical choices they can eek out in a really awful situation.
I don’t want to disparage the victims of this exchange for making calculated decisions to preserve maximum lives and potential for maintaining a functioning socialist project. if you really look at all the info we have about the situation, I still have no reason to believe there are any compradors among PSUV, which is why they have continued to show a level of top down solidarity rarely seen.
of course people are pissed about what is happening, but they aren’t blaming people within their movement or fracturing yet. once that happens, obviously we always side with the people, but right now the chavistas on the ground are still pretty much entirely behind Delcy. look to Bolivia for a very recent and salient comparison of what it would look like in venezuela the moment the grassroots detect compradors have taken power of the state.
idk how real this one is
This reminded me to add “and blocking of all oil exports”
Are you saying that the US wouldn’t bomb Venezuela?
i’m saying the yankee promise not to bomb them is untrustworthy
Of course you can’t trust the US government to not go back on their agreement, but at the moment Venezuela is selling oil again, which was not possible during the US blockade, and are not getting bombed, and they have no leverage to stop those things outside of diplomacy, so thats what they are doing. If Venezuela had a straight of hormuz or a domestic drone production industry they could potentially have some way to push back but without that a tactical defeat is better than widespread death and destruction
Nah you are really selling us on the benefits of US imperialism
Then I look to you to have a revolution and end US imperialism if you want the Venezuelan people to be free. They already had their revolution and have tens of thousands of communes actively organizing and struggling for their people. If everyone who organized on hexbear got together they wouldn’t even make up the size of one Venezuelan commune, nor would they have a single chavista’s courage or experience
I’m not blaming the venezuelan people for not fighting a fight they can’t win but jumping straight to talking the “huge benefits” really rubs me the wrong way. Just chalk it up as an L.
Talking about the many benefits has the same energy as when libs talk about how colonialism actually was a big benefit to the colonialized people because it civilized the savages.
I didn’t say they were huge benefits, the other user said they were getting “nothing in exchange” and I was listing several things they do get. I definitely wouldn’t say they are huge benefits on their own but if the alternative is total economic blockade and the majority of their infrastructure destroyed and millions of dead Venezuelans, it does seem like they got the best outcome available.
Many people here are libs and don’t understand Marxism even a little bit. They read a headline and form the entirety of their opinions based on it. They do no research into the topics they discuss and then pretend to have well formed thoughts. They don’t understand the dialectical nature of reality, they see two steps back as a total defeat instead of a setback on the path of progress. This is just one more phase in a multi generational struggle.
If you compare Venezuela to what happened in syria, bolvia, Colombia and others, it is clear that the chavistas haven’t been totally defeated despite this recent tactical defeat. I would even hold out on saying Bolivian and Colombian revolutionaries are defeated (unlike syria which definitely is), but the Venezuelan project was many times more established and cemented in the masses than Colombia and even Bolivia
There are more intellectual ways to talk about it but ultimately I think my analogy to to talk about it like getting robbed at gun point is quite precise. The advantage of handing over your wallet when you are getting robbed is not a big mystery.
Dunno what to tell you, I spent legitimately over an hour trying to find information on this deal and the one site that apparently had any was the one that won’t open in my browser.
https://t.me/DrodriguezVen/13757?single
here is the acting president of venezuela’s statement
Thanks, I don’t have access to platforms like telegram so this was very helpful.
I got that link via https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/trump-biggest-oil-deal-100-year-lease-of-venezuelan-oil-reserves/
https://orinocotribune.com/
doesn’t seem to have published on it yet but is another good source for this kind of info