The Statesian working class isn’t politically educated or particularly organized. They do rise up, such as during the BLM protests, and the mass opposition on the ground to ICE and flock, etc, but the demands are always funneled into electoralism due to a low level of political theory and class consciousness. The primary task is to create a working class party of disciplined revolutionaries that can actually educate the rest of the working class, struggle alongside them, and in times of crisis, bring that struggle forwards to a successful revolution.
Really, what’s needed is a trigger. Quantity turns into quality at certain points, but it’s difficult to predict the social moment of this. I think the AI bubble crashing, the oil crisis due to the Iran War, and the continued erosure of the US on the world stage as compared with China all could push us to this revolutionary moment. That’s why getting organized is the primary task right now.
No? Classes aren’t simply categories of people, they are social relations to ownership of the means of production and distribution. Socialism works, and is far more effective at meeting people’s needs than capitalism.
Well, modern class structure is way more complicated than just owners versus people who sell their labor. Making simple claims about extremely complex systems is all you’re doing. Shit is straight out of the populist handbook. Workers can own substantial capital through pensions and investments, managers can have significant control without ownership, and small business owners can simultaneously be owners and laborers.
I don’t see how any of what you said invalidates what I said. I’m keeping it simple because this is Lemmy, and I’m not going to type out a summary of the entirety of Marxist theory on social class without reason. Of course workers can own some capital and the petite bourgeoisie exists, this has been known for centuries, and isn’t new. Complexity has increased, but that does not diminish the fact that society is generalized into capitalists and workers, even if subcategories exist.
Essentially, society has never been composed of people who only own capital and people who only sell their labor. This has also never been the Marxist position either, so you’re fighting a strawman neither of us believes.
Yeah I’m only halfway through blackshirts and reds, I’ll get there. Your link does discuss people who only own capital and only sell their labor. Being slaves and masters. You haven’t clearly explained how removing classes could look. Capitalism provides the ability to blend, climb or fall. You haven’t talked about how to remove classes or how that turns into a utopia of equity and friendship. You’ve made the same nebulous populist statements that have put dictators into power historically. What is the value making the distinction between subclasses brings?
The point is that variations exist within classes, they aren’t rigid binary lines but instead a bimodal distribution.
As for removing class, by collectivizing all production and distribution. There’s no such thing as a “utopia of equity and friendship,” nor have socialist countries been ruled by dictators. The achievement of a classless society is one where all production and distribution is held in common through gradually appropriating property under a socialist government.
Socialist countries have never been run by dictators? Your explanation also lacks any concrete method or actual steps. Again, it’s just blatant oversimplification and populism.
There you are again. Poster child of why .ml isn’t liked or respected by the majority of Lemmy instances/users. You just appear every so often and say stupid, aggressive and unsubstantiated shit. Boooooooo
The Statesian working class isn’t politically educated or particularly organized. They do rise up, such as during the BLM protests, and the mass opposition on the ground to ICE and flock, etc, but the demands are always funneled into electoralism due to a low level of political theory and class consciousness. The primary task is to create a working class party of disciplined revolutionaries that can actually educate the rest of the working class, struggle alongside them, and in times of crisis, bring that struggle forwards to a successful revolution.
Really, what’s needed is a trigger. Quantity turns into quality at certain points, but it’s difficult to predict the social moment of this. I think the AI bubble crashing, the oil crisis due to the Iran War, and the continued erosure of the US on the world stage as compared with China all could push us to this revolutionary moment. That’s why getting organized is the primary task right now.
As always,
Educate!
Agitate!
Organize!
Well said comrade.
🫡
We need to create a benevolent ruler class (working class revolutionaries) and hope they stay benevolent. It’s worked well every time…
No? Classes aren’t simply categories of people, they are social relations to ownership of the means of production and distribution. Socialism works, and is far more effective at meeting people’s needs than capitalism.
Well, modern class structure is way more complicated than just owners versus people who sell their labor. Making simple claims about extremely complex systems is all you’re doing. Shit is straight out of the populist handbook. Workers can own substantial capital through pensions and investments, managers can have significant control without ownership, and small business owners can simultaneously be owners and laborers.
I don’t see how any of what you said invalidates what I said. I’m keeping it simple because this is Lemmy, and I’m not going to type out a summary of the entirety of Marxist theory on social class without reason. Of course workers can own some capital and the petite bourgeoisie exists, this has been known for centuries, and isn’t new. Complexity has increased, but that does not diminish the fact that society is generalized into capitalists and workers, even if subcategories exist.
Essentially, society has never been composed of people who only own capital and people who only sell their labor. This has also never been the Marxist position either, so you’re fighting a strawman neither of us believes.
Yeah I’m only halfway through blackshirts and reds, I’ll get there. Your link does discuss people who only own capital and only sell their labor. Being slaves and masters. You haven’t clearly explained how removing classes could look. Capitalism provides the ability to blend, climb or fall. You haven’t talked about how to remove classes or how that turns into a utopia of equity and friendship. You’ve made the same nebulous populist statements that have put dictators into power historically. What is the value making the distinction between subclasses brings?
The point is that variations exist within classes, they aren’t rigid binary lines but instead a bimodal distribution.
As for removing class, by collectivizing all production and distribution. There’s no such thing as a “utopia of equity and friendship,” nor have socialist countries been ruled by dictators. The achievement of a classless society is one where all production and distribution is held in common through gradually appropriating property under a socialist government.
Socialist countries have never been run by dictators? Your explanation also lacks any concrete method or actual steps. Again, it’s just blatant oversimplification and populism.
You are politically and historically illiterate, and a coward.
There you are again. Poster child of why .ml isn’t liked or respected by the majority of Lemmy instances/users. You just appear every so often and say stupid, aggressive and unsubstantiated shit. Boooooooo
I’m right and my assertions about you are all extremely substantiated
Not true.
Is true.