Libs in my circles have latched onto a part where he (they claim, I haven’t watched it) says the molotov-ribbentrop pact was to protect Czechoslovakia which is pretty brainwormy. I’ve been responding to ribbentrop shit for the last few days because of the uptick in discussion about it.
Question, but how could Hitler to turn east towards the USSR if Poland is in the way? Unless they expected the Poles and Nazis to collaborate? or did they believe he wouldn’t invade France and do the USSR next? Is there any evidence of this?
This all makes sense to me, what I am trying to square is what’s the thinking in Berlin while all this is going on? Why do they make the choices they do? With the benefit of hindsight, why would Hitler ever even consider getting on Britain or France’s bad side? We know Hitler wanted his Lebensraum to the east, it seems like it would be straightforward to just hash that out with the eventual “Allies”?
The best answer I have is, Germany and the US/UK/France ultimately were never on the same page. I think the Allies wanted Germany to invade the USSR, but kind of in the way they want the Ukraine/Russia war in the present to grind on as long as possible. They wanted to use Germany to wear down the USSR. Best case scenario for them is for both Germany and the USSR to essentially destroy each other, so you eventually get two weakened states beholden to western hegemony.
That said, I can’t help but wonder how much the irrationality of fascism comes into play here. And I hate to ascribe irrational motives to anyone, even fascists… I have a hard time with any other explanation for a lot of the diplomatic and foreign policy choices the Nazis made.
I generally don’t call it an invasion. The government of poland had fled the country by the time the ussr moved into the east almost entirely unopposed because the country was ungoverned. They moved into an ungoverned territory and saved 2 million jews in the process. Then later they saved the rest of the country. And preserved it, and its culture, under lebensraum both of which would have been deleted like the americans did to the lands they captured.
From memory Stalin proposed to deploy troops in Czechoslovakia if Poland give them transit and basing rights? I had thought that was before the pact was signed and when he was still trying to get Anglo and French support for a security pact
So before World War II, Poland collaborated with Hitler and although it did not yield to Hitler’s demands, it still participated in the partitioning of Czechoslovakia together with Hitler. As the Poles had not given the Danzig Corridor to Germany, and went too far, pushing Hitler to start World War II by attacking them. Why was it Poland against whom the war started on 1 September 1939? Poland turned out to be uncompromising, and Hitler had nothing to do but start implementing his plans with Poland.
Saying that Poland refusing to cede Danzig to Germany was the cause of WW2 is a bit iffy I think. Why is Danzig a legitimate target to cede while the Sudetenland was an outrage?
It would be nice if people were less easily impressed with blood and soil propaganda.
Libs in my circles have latched onto a part where he (they claim, I haven’t watched it) says the molotov-ribbentrop pact was to protect Czechoslovakia which is pretty brainwormy. I’ve been responding to ribbentrop shit for the last few days because of the uptick in discussion about it.
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Question, but how could Hitler to turn east towards the USSR if Poland is in the way? Unless they expected the Poles and Nazis to collaborate? or did they believe he wouldn’t invade France and do the USSR next? Is there any evidence of this?
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This all makes sense to me, what I am trying to square is what’s the thinking in Berlin while all this is going on? Why do they make the choices they do? With the benefit of hindsight, why would Hitler ever even consider getting on Britain or France’s bad side? We know Hitler wanted his Lebensraum to the east, it seems like it would be straightforward to just hash that out with the eventual “Allies”?
The best answer I have is, Germany and the US/UK/France ultimately were never on the same page. I think the Allies wanted Germany to invade the USSR, but kind of in the way they want the Ukraine/Russia war in the present to grind on as long as possible. They wanted to use Germany to wear down the USSR. Best case scenario for them is for both Germany and the USSR to essentially destroy each other, so you eventually get two weakened states beholden to western hegemony.
That said, I can’t help but wonder how much the irrationality of fascism comes into play here. And I hate to ascribe irrational motives to anyone, even fascists… I have a hard time with any other explanation for a lot of the diplomatic and foreign policy choices the Nazis made.
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Yeah I assumed something about that was wrong. I haven’t watched it. Maybe worth checking what he did say if they’re going to go on about it forever.
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List of responses:
Whataboutism? What about deez nuts?
Precisely dear
I generally don’t call it an invasion. The government of poland had fled the country by the time the ussr moved into the east almost entirely unopposed because the country was ungoverned. They moved into an ungoverned territory and saved 2 million jews in the process. Then later they saved the rest of the country. And preserved it, and its culture, under lebensraum both of which would have been deleted like the americans did to the lands they captured.
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From memory Stalin proposed to deploy troops in Czechoslovakia if Poland give them transit and basing rights? I had thought that was before the pact was signed and when he was still trying to get Anglo and French support for a security pact
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If a genocidal monster is calling your country the hyena of Europe…
Saying that Poland refusing to cede Danzig to Germany was the cause of WW2 is a bit iffy I think. Why is Danzig a legitimate target to cede while the Sudetenland was an outrage?
It would be nice if people were less easily impressed with blood and soil propaganda.