I remember reading somewhere that vaping is more addictive than smoking. Sure it is not as bad as smoking health wise but the bar is set extremely low.
I believe it, it can have a much higher nicotine concentration if you want it to and vape juice is tasty.
The one saving grace of cigarettes are that they taste like garbage so it’s harder to get proper addicted to them. But a good vape will taste like candy even to a non smoker, so you can get drunk with your buddy one night and take a couple rips off of his watermelon flavored vape and exit that night with an intense craving for more, ask me how I know.
Not really. You are just exchanging one addictive habit for another. Tobacco companies have been selling vapes as safe alternatives to smoking driven by social media bots and MD shills, but it’s a big fucking lie.
But that’s just DHA. We have no idea and have no testing or regulation of what goes into vapes coming out of Chinese chemical plants. No one is looking at this.
We’ll just wait for the human data to eventually show up, but the studies running on this were killed by Trump when he killed the NIH last year. No way inhaling huge quantities of DHA isn’t dangerous. This is a major concern in sunblock cremes and that’s not even deep ingestion into lungs.
Bro, they were firing old school clearomizers with a starting wattage that’s at the top of what’s recommended. You can tell by the conversation graphs because EC3 is a more modern tank and it’s an order of magnitude lower.
There’s a reason why clearomizers didn’t stay around long. They designed this study to produce DHA. You can tell because there was no change in EC3 across the temperatures, yet they scaled their graph to make it look comparable to the clearomizers. And the levels in EC3 were so low that it could have easily been machine error given the way they had to measure it.
The amount EC3 produced is 50x lower than the lowest amount the mice were exposed to.
If you use a temperature controlled mod, this is all a non-issue.
I’ve been vaping for 15 years now. Lungs are perfectly healthy. But I make my own unflavored e-liquid with nicotine purchased from a pharmaceutical producer so I know exactly what’s in it
you always can choose to start or not. beyond that, addiction may or may not set in. but people can always choose to start and they can always choose their method of use.
weird how when it comes to tobacco people always think there are no decisions. have you never thought about it, like with your brain?
Tobacco and vapes are nicotine delivery devices design to entrap addicts for life. This is why most vape companies are tobacco companies and why scumbags are selling nicotine pouches.
Nicotine on its own is about as addictive as caffeine.
It’s the delivery system that the mental addiction is tethered to, not the substance.
Regardless, multiple studies have shown that vaping is a successful method to quit smoking, and that vaping is significantly less harmful than smoking.
Shit, even the heavy metal study that was misreported to sound scary had Vapes with concentrations that were either orders of magnitude lower than smoking, lower than the OSHA limits, and in some cases lower than atmospheric levels.
Yeah but stop pretending like vapes are some magic device to help with addiction. If they were actually meant to help with addiction they would be prescribed and come with additional medical help. Time after time we have seen this exact situation play out, something comes around to decrease addiction and does nothing more than induce it this is no different.
Sure and that probrally comes with more than just vapes but also medical help and professional support, I doubt they just give you a prescription and say “here smoke this shit until you pass out”
Right, but you said they didn’t help with addiction because no one prescribed them for it. I’ve been personally responsible for getting about 20 people off of cigarettes by introducing them to vaping with an open system. And many of them went on to quit vaping with relative ease.
Vaping was created for the purpose of making it easy stopping smoking and to reduce harm. This was way before disposable vapes were a thing, back when people were modifying flashlights to heat coils.
It’s a highly effective method to stop smoking because it not only does it contain the mildly addictive nicotine, it also replaces the action of smoking which is the truly addictive part.
I was under the impression that there are metal flakes in the flavors that absolutely wrecked your lungs. More so than regular cigarettes, was my understanding.
"A total of 87 clinical trials were identified, of which only seven were related to smoking cessation through vaping as a form of treatment. "
Had to scrape the pubmed barrel pretty deep for that one.
Meta analysis is best done by Cochrane, and they see a slight to mild effect, but indicate huge bias in the CTs. Also the conflicts sections is three pages long as the number of MDs running these studies funded by Vape companies is hilarious.
I gotta be honest with you chief if I was a scientist, trying to establish a point. And I had the choice between a meta-analysis and running an actual study…… I would run a study and not a meta analysis. For only the fact that he examined 87 studies and could barely find 7 to use for his analysis. The bar for scientific publishing is in hell. But hey look at the audience.
Really? Ones about women vaping on opioids. Two of them were about dual users of cigarettes and ecigarettes. None of them came close to correlating with OP‘s statement.
would you like to summarize those seven studies with me and see if there’s any relationship in there?
It’s almost like the tobacco industry doesn’t have your well being at heart. Vaping is actually way more profitable than smoking since there is less social stigma around it. Vaping companies market themselves as clean and healthy but in reality they are still preying off people who are hopelessly addicted.
Your smoking “habit” (addiction) will go away but it gets replaced rather than removed.
Using it to quit smoking is a good idea, and the only one actually.
But disposable !? FUCK ME this world is doomed…
I remember reading somewhere that vaping is more addictive than smoking. Sure it is not as bad as smoking health wise but the bar is set extremely low.
I believe it, it can have a much higher nicotine concentration if you want it to and vape juice is tasty.
The one saving grace of cigarettes are that they taste like garbage so it’s harder to get proper addicted to them. But a good vape will taste like candy even to a non smoker, so you can get drunk with your buddy one night and take a couple rips off of his watermelon flavored vape and exit that night with an intense craving for more, ask me how I know.
Not really. You are just exchanging one addictive habit for another. Tobacco companies have been selling vapes as safe alternatives to smoking driven by social media bots and MD shills, but it’s a big fucking lie.
Heating glycerol to make vapor breaks glycerol, a safe compound into DHA dihydroacetone, which causes DNA damage which can trigger cancer in lung.
But that’s just DHA. We have no idea and have no testing or regulation of what goes into vapes coming out of Chinese chemical plants. No one is looking at this.
Vapes don’t typically get hot enough to break glycerin down into DHA. The normal temperature range is 400-450F while glycerin breaks down at 536F
That’s an invitro study which is basically worthless.
That’s a valid point about Chinese eliquid, which is part of why disposables aren’t a good option.
That is wrong.
It’s in cell models, not in vitro.
Here’s a mouse study.
We’ll just wait for the human data to eventually show up, but the studies running on this were killed by Trump when he killed the NIH last year. No way inhaling huge quantities of DHA isn’t dangerous. This is a major concern in sunblock cremes and that’s not even deep ingestion into lungs.
Bro, they were firing old school clearomizers with a starting wattage that’s at the top of what’s recommended. You can tell by the conversation graphs because EC3 is a more modern tank and it’s an order of magnitude lower.
There’s a reason why clearomizers didn’t stay around long. They designed this study to produce DHA. You can tell because there was no change in EC3 across the temperatures, yet they scaled their graph to make it look comparable to the clearomizers. And the levels in EC3 were so low that it could have easily been machine error given the way they had to measure it.
The amount EC3 produced is 50x lower than the lowest amount the mice were exposed to.
If you use a temperature controlled mod, this is all a non-issue.
Remind me in 10 years
I’ve been vaping for 15 years now. Lungs are perfectly healthy. But I make my own unflavored e-liquid with nicotine purchased from a pharmaceutical producer so I know exactly what’s in it
Most smokers are fine with 15 years. Have you have a pulmonary work up or is this just feels?
I’ve had a pulmonary workup recently, yes.
Replacing a cig with something that has no immediate downsides and is always available. Hmm
People have been quitting smoking for a lot longer than capes existed. Vaping is not safe.
it can be a better method for some people than the other extant methods.
The grand majority of people vaping aren’t quitting smoking and probably never smoked
That’s not the topic of discussion.
yeah, that’s their choice. weird how that works, isn’t it.
You have no “choice” when you are drug addicted to nicotine.
you always can choose to start or not. beyond that, addiction may or may not set in. but people can always choose to start and they can always choose their method of use.
weird how when it comes to tobacco people always think there are no decisions. have you never thought about it, like with your brain?
Tobacco and vapes are nicotine delivery devices design to entrap addicts for life. This is why most vape companies are tobacco companies and why scumbags are selling nicotine pouches.
Nicotine on its own is about as addictive as caffeine.
It’s the delivery system that the mental addiction is tethered to, not the substance.
Regardless, multiple studies have shown that vaping is a successful method to quit smoking, and that vaping is significantly less harmful than smoking.
Shit, even the heavy metal study that was misreported to sound scary had Vapes with concentrations that were either orders of magnitude lower than smoking, lower than the OSHA limits, and in some cases lower than atmospheric levels.
Yeah but stop pretending like vapes are some magic device to help with addiction. If they were actually meant to help with addiction they would be prescribed and come with additional medical help. Time after time we have seen this exact situation play out, something comes around to decrease addiction and does nothing more than induce it this is no different.
The NHS actually prescribes them.
Sure and that probrally comes with more than just vapes but also medical help and professional support, I doubt they just give you a prescription and say “here smoke this shit until you pass out”
Right, but you said they didn’t help with addiction because no one prescribed them for it. I’ve been personally responsible for getting about 20 people off of cigarettes by introducing them to vaping with an open system. And many of them went on to quit vaping with relative ease.
Vaping was created for the purpose of making it easy stopping smoking and to reduce harm. This was way before disposable vapes were a thing, back when people were modifying flashlights to heat coils.
It’s a highly effective method to stop smoking because it not only does it contain the mildly addictive nicotine, it also replaces the action of smoking which is the truly addictive part.
please point to the area in my comment where i did that
I was under the impression that there are metal flakes in the flavors that absolutely wrecked your lungs. More so than regular cigarettes, was my understanding.
Metal flakes? From what?
My understanding is from the heater coils
Actually the stats say that only a fraction of people quit, but instead increase the nicotine content.
Do they?
"A total of 87 clinical trials were identified, of which only seven were related to smoking cessation through vaping as a form of treatment. "
Had to scrape the pubmed barrel pretty deep for that one.
Meta analysis is best done by Cochrane, and they see a slight to mild effect, but indicate huge bias in the CTs. Also the conflicts sections is three pages long as the number of MDs running these studies funded by Vape companies is hilarious.
Whack ass study alert. 7 studies used… just read the titles of the studies.
It’s a meta study, and 7 studies is more than sufficient to establish statistical significance. There’s also no issue with the study titles.
Would you like to pick which of those seven studies was most correlated and effective at proving OP point?
I gotta be honest with you chief if I was a scientist, trying to establish a point. And I had the choice between a meta-analysis and running an actual study…… I would run a study and not a meta analysis. For only the fact that he examined 87 studies and could barely find 7 to use for his analysis. The bar for scientific publishing is in hell. But hey look at the audience.
Really? Ones about women vaping on opioids. Two of them were about dual users of cigarettes and ecigarettes. None of them came close to correlating with OP‘s statement.
would you like to summarize those seven studies with me and see if there’s any relationship in there?
I already told you I’m no longer engaging with your exponential growth comment method. Fuck off.
Yea I bet lmao thats actually what I was hoping to obtain. Shut the fuck up if you don’t have anything valuable to add.
But he concludes (one author) what we want to hear!
I just want to see someone present a study and not a meta analysis of the 10 worst studies they could find for once.
lol the vapes have higher nicotine content and are more consumable. Your smoking habit will just double.
It’s almost like the tobacco industry doesn’t have your well being at heart. Vaping is actually way more profitable than smoking since there is less social stigma around it. Vaping companies market themselves as clean and healthy but in reality they are still preying off people who are hopelessly addicted.
Your smoking “habit” (addiction) will go away but it gets replaced rather than removed.
Ya notice how there’s no good studies on the topic. Big tobacco loophole for the next generation of smokers: