I can’t say I’ve been using Lemmy for long, but from the get-go it seems that the communities, memes, opinions that get upvoted seem to reflect left-wing ideas.
I’m certainly not complaining, it honestly feels like a breathe of fresh air compared to other social media sites that seem to shift further and further to the far right, though I am curious to hear why this might be the case? Does FOSS tend to attract more left-wing minded people, or does this just happen to be a broadly left-wing microcosm/bubble?
Hope you all have a great day.
The philosophy behind FOSS is inherently left wing and anarchist; communities working together to provide and produce tools for the common good, without a profit motive. Coupled with the lack of advertising and promotion of the sites, people have to seek them out, leading to a self-selecting user population that skews left :)
I would say that FOSS typically draws a more educated crowd, and right wing rhetoric and propaganda typically target those of lesser education and lower cognitive ability, simply because those people are the most likely hosts for rightoid brain worms. Why do colleges skew heavily left, gee it must be brainwashing /s
Eh, there’s plenty of educated right wingers. Not fascists as much, but the kind of fiscally conservative economists who preach austerity are often as not highly educated, just lacking in empathy.
There are definitely plenty of well educated, intelligent fascists as well. It’s pretty dangerous to start thinking that what separates two ideological groups is intelligence.
I believe what they were separating was Fascist leaders versus fascist followers.
I was mainly responding to the previous comment which characterized right-wingers as having “lesser cognitive ability”. Just saying that that kind of thinking sets up a “we’re superior” mentality that can too easily lead to the same kinds of consequences as thinking you’re superior based on race or social status. There are so many environmental and experiential factors that go into where a person lands politically and how effective certain forms of propaganda are on them. Blanket statements that characterize entire people groups as less intelligent are not in any way accurate or helpful.
Just saying that that kind of thinking sets up a “we’re superior” mentality that can too easily lead to the same kinds of consequences as thinking you’re superior based on race or social status.
It already does, it’s called ableism and it has such deep roots in society it is everywhere no matter political leaning, which is why it is rarely addressed - because most of society still sees it as perfectly acceptable that disabled people are inferior (even though ableism impacts them too, not just because accessibility and inclusion benefit everyone, but because people just don’t like to think about getting hit by a car, having a stroke, or just growing old, nor about their child being born neurodivergent for example).
I think what you said is true. But you’re referring to people who have an actual handicap and are discriminated against for it.
What I’m referring to is the idea of allowing myself to believe that a people group are less intelligent than I am just because they don’t align with me politically or ideologically. There is no actual handicap for which they are being discriminated against, simply having a different life experience and different view point is enough. It’s ironically a deeply fascist mentality…and I agree it is everywhere.
You’re speaking of pundits and politicians whose opinions are public and widespread. There is little reason to believe that those folks are sincere in their public statements. They are motivated by greed to lie in an effort to sway the opinions of uneducated people.
Among the general public, those that sincerely hold conservative political views are cognitively impaired. Source: they vote for things that are objectively against their own prosperity.
The educated and the well-travelled may have a broader set of view points to see how many different ideas and values work (or don’t work) in practice.
I don’t disagree on some just lacking empathy. But I also think not all education creates exposure to a wide range of ideas and values that stick (or the education is just too narrow), so you’ll still find plenty of people who are educated on paper, but not cognizant of a broad set of world views. I also think we are too quick to label foreign ideas==bad ourselves. Empathy is a two way street. The key in navigating this may be in identifying when an idea comes in good faith or if it is hostile.
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I think pretty much everyone views their political ideology as “the one that stands for freedom”, and it just comes down to what it means to be “free”, and the follow up of free from what.
I feel like libertarians would love the concept of FOSS and decentralization, and I don’t think anyone would argue they skew left.
So, I disagree that FOSS is inherently left wing. I think it’s attractive to the left wing for many good reasons. I think people project their own politics onto whatever they love, and things can be loved by very different groups for different reasons.
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I mean you signed up on lemmy.marxism-leninism. Yeah they tend to lean left, lol.
But yeah your observation indeed is is correct. Not only does lemmy lean left it often leans pretty far left too. It might feel like a breathe of fresh air but it’s still a bubble and echo chamber. It’s the same as truth social but the exact opposite. Nothing wrong with that per-se but it’s a good thing to keep in mind. Factual information is regularly downvoted here not because it’s false but because it doesn’t fit the narrative.
I don’t come here for the far left. I come here for the lack of the far right. The far left are some crazy nutters, too, but I think for the most part they are well meaning and that’s a damn sight better than the far right who just wear hatred on their fucking sleeves.
It means I get some shit for not wanting to live in a big city or being happy driving a car, but I take solace in the fact that I’ll be long dead before far left ideals take hold in any significant way. Meanwhile… fascism is a far more immediate threat, and that’s the one group of fuckers I give myself leave to unabashedly hate.
There’s no scarcity of hate on Lemmy either. It simply flies under the radar for most part because it’s directed at things we hate too. Exactly as is the case on far-right forums as well. Just read the comments of any thread about Elon, Police, Ai, Facebook, Twitter, Capitalism, Israel and so on. You even admit participating in it yourself.
The far-right thinks of themselves as well meaning just as well. Nobody thinks of themselves as the bad guys. Claiming they intend to be hateful and evil is disingenuine. That’s only how you view them. Their view of us is hardly any different. Both views are wrong.
If you think hating on fascists is just more of the same (and to be clear, there is a lot of ambiguity in what you said) then I’m going to have to disagree. There is no nobility in loving your enemy until they exterminate you.
As for the rest, you come at me a bit argumentative, but I don’t really disagree. But does it make it an echo chamber if I don’t fight everyone I disagree with? I’ve been arguing on the internet since before the WWW existed and nothing has changed, least of all anyone’s minds. I get upvotes when I manage a particularly eloquent turn of phrase that captures the zeitgeist, but as gratifying as that is I enjoy the back and fourth a lot more. I’d rather have someone thoughtfully and respectfully disagree with me.
No, I don’t think hating on fascists is the same but that assumes we’re speaking of actual fascists instead of more or less normal people who happen to lean right and get called fascists because it’s an easy label to throw at someone because we don’t like them and they’re making noises that remotely sound like something a fascist would make. It’s equivalent to the right calling someone a communist for advocating for things like UBI or higher taxes for the wealthy.
People like Elon Musk gets called a nazi here daily. I don’t care how much one hates him, that’s just a blatantly false accusation but it gets the upvotes because what they’re essentially saying is “boo Elon” and that’s something most Lemmings agree with. This just dillutes the meaning of these labels to the point that people then are sceptical even when they’re used appropriately.
It’s not about loving your enemy. Atleast not in my case. I’m only trying to remind people that groups consist of individuals and no two of them are the same. I don’t like how both sides so dishonestly represent eachother’s views on social media and use these extreme labels so lightly. I think in most things in life the truth is somwehere in the middle so wether it be left or right, the further one goes in that direction the more likely they’re to be at the wrong side of history. I’ll much rather trust the judgement of someone who whose beliefs are such a mixed bag that they’re near impossible to place on the political spectrum.
I’m also just rambling here now. I don’t even remember what we were talking about anymore.
I was trying to make clear I was talking about the far right. The folks who think the Proud Boys include some good people.
I’m not really sure about your Musk talking point though. For someone who definitely isn’t a Nazi, he sure does a lot for them. But, to argue with myself, he’s likely too drugged out and too much of a narcissist to have an ethos. Fucking nihilists.
I’d be fine with hating fascists if the word referred to actual fascists and not everyone who even slightly disagrees with you.
Also, I don’t think physical violence against people based on their political views is justified, no matter how horrendous the views are.
I don’t believe in solving problems with aggression, but I’ve never held it against anyone who punched a Nazi. I don’t approve, but I don’t lose sleep if others choose differently.
I suppose to be fair, I would feel the same about any violent authoritarian political view, not exclusively fascism.
Even if the left is overall more tolerant, there’s still plenty of toxicity that alienates people and pushes them rightward.
I think the idea that MLs are a far left ideology is pretty questionable honestly. But that is the conventional wisdom certainly.
The definition most people use for left and right isn’t really consistent or coherent. If you do try to iron out those inconsistencies, you’ll find that MLs don’t really fit with the rest of the left.
Because reality has a left-wing bias.
Damnit this would’ve been my immediate response, too.
Heh. Because lefties are just conservatives who got mugged by reality, and once that happens there’s no going back? ;-)
I don’t know what that has to do with anything. I’m a lefty, life has never mugged me. I’m a leftist because bad things happen to everyone and the solutions isn’t to hurt people until they’re better people. Giving people time and resources just makes people and society better.
In general and on the aggregate, I am with you.
However, as an anecdote, I took in a couple of very conservative Christians who got evicted, gave them time (to pay off bills) and resources (food, water, power, internet, a bed, a roof…now at 4 months), and they’re not lifting a finger to help around the house and expect our kid to do their dishes and take out their trash.
Sometimes people are just selfish greedy assholes and there’s no changing that even with time and resources. And trust me they will be getting evicted from my house quite soon (with proper notification by state law).
I hope this experience doesn’t make me a bitter old fool. I truly do. Because I love the concept of helping others, it just tends to backfire more than I’d like.
It has to do with profit motive. The Fediverse, and the Lemmy sub-protocol, arose when for-profit enterprises (TwitX and Reddit, respectively) began prioritizing their own bottom line over the enrichment of their users.
This has always been the Faustian bargain of social media: you are the product and you receive free content at the cost of advertisements and data mining.
Once the monopolists of the social sphere overstepped their bounds - got too invasive, or tried extracting value directly from the end user - free alternatives formed.
Naturally, the only people self-aware enough to be put off by the exploitation of these monopolists were left-leaning. There’re a lot of people out there who will pay to be cocooned in an echo chamber (viz Truth Social) but leftists like to pretend they’re too good for that shit.
So here we all are, enjoying a methodone drip of social media without all of the optimization and dopamine-tweaking hooks that for-profit socials live by.
It’s not a bad outcome, really, and if someone somehow wants to start a counter-culture right wing node on the fediverse, nothing is stopping him except a total lack of willing participants.
Say what you will about leftists; at least they try new things - and conservatives, as you would expect from the name, do not.
It’s not a bad outcome, really, and if someone somehow wants to start a counter-culture right wing node on the fediverse, nothing is stopping him except a total lack of willing participants.
And the fact, that most instance would instantly defederate
One could argue that as alot of us are exredditors we would be the more progressive or left side of the crowd. Something happened we didn’t like so we left it behind for something we hope will be better and put in the effort to make it so as opposed to staying with what we know and really waiting things out before choosing a new direction. It would have been easy to stay with reddit, hell I could go back in an instant and it would be like I never left, but I chose this new path and I’m sticking with it. That is what progress is all about
There are sections of both the right and the left that have anti-authoritarian tendancies.
The libertarian right tends to view things purely in terms of government over reach, whilst the left tends to view things in terms of the power of capital.
Leftists saw Facebook pushing propaganda for the highest bidder, Reddit trying to be safe to sell to investors and twitter basically becoming a project to reflect Elon Musk’s personal opinions.
Out of that came a bunch of attempts at creating new social networks. The right wing attempts were not cognisant that the aforementioned were the natural result of trying to get rich off it, while the left attempted to make it impossible to get into that position.
People seeking to be free from corporate overlords, and desiring a place to speak their minds and who also don’t have an issue with spending a little time and effort tend to have a more liberal mindset. Regrettably as primates, we also have a tendency to form tribes and give short shrift to any viewpoints outside of those we ourselves believe in. I personally would prefer a dialogue of equals where we can debate our differences and agree to disagree or even find the places where we do agree and can come together. However, that enlightened state of being escapes most all of us. Instead, I will regress to thumping my chest and hooting at you.
throws poo
the right loves corporations it doesn’t go out of its way to avoid them
I think all the right wingers who were dissatisfied with reddit migrated to voat?
Exploding heads, too, but everyone defederated from that.
Truth Social and whatever Jack Dorsey and Thiel are up to
I wouldn’t say FOSS is inherently leftist, but it’s certainly not a capitalist approach.
And Lemmy has been developed by two outspoken Marxists, so the earliest adopters before the larger waves of reddit exilees had a similar mindset.
Add to the fact that most of the oldest and therefore largest communities are hosted on lemmy.ml, which is run by the original devs, and features moderators who by and large also share a similar mindset (and suppress critical comments quite a bit), and you’ve got a lefty echo chamber going, that’s spilling into the newer communities on neutral instances, giving the whole platform a left touch.
I once wrote a comment on a lemmy.ml page about China being authoritarian and my comment was removed, with a note saying “China isn’t authoritarian, stop spreading misinformation” LMAO. Delusional people
Indeed. I happen to live in China, and everybody calls it authoritarian, especially the locals.
They’re not delusional, they’re paid.
Why would they be paid for a software that can be used for free, to create larger servers than their owns, with completely separate communities they have nothing to say about?
Doesn’t seem like a very effective strategy
Because the Fediverse is a great target for propaganda, which is invaluable for some authoritarian countries.
Lemmy is an echochamber with relatively limited, uncoordinated moderation. 1,000,000+ monthly active users, and lemmy.ml is a flagship instance.
Not really. Lemmy is filled with skeptics, rebels, and independent thinkers, and there are only like 50,000 monthly active users.
You know what’s a much better target for propaganda? Reddit or any corporate social media site. The users are simpleminded and easily manipulated and you don’t even have to worry about moderators, you can just pay to run ads.
This is my understanding as well. History of the platform skews it left.
But I also don’t think in terms of left and right (though its hard to get away from the terms so widely used). For instance, most people tend to describe the difference in terms of money and profit (capitalism). I look at control and freedom. I don’t want governments controlling what we see, hear, and say. I want us all to control our own lives. Lemmy/Fedi is completely supportive of that concept.
I don’t want governments controlling what we see, hear, and say.
Might want to find a new instance
It skews young, and young skews left.
Now if only young voted…
Lemmy users seem older than most social media to me. Why is Star Trek TNG so popular here if not?
My guess is the fat part of the bell curve is 25-40 here, probably similar to Twitter, younger than Facebook, older than tik tok and maybe Instagram.
Facebook is basically a dinosaur. The demographic that were the first users ran away right around the time when their parents got accounts.
Re-runs.
TNG has young fans and you can have enough old farts like me around to populate a TNG forum while the whole is still mostly younger.
People looking for a Reddit alternative don’t tend to be conservatives and liberals. r/worldnews fits their needs perfectly.
Thus the migration is either to a left platform like Lemmy, or truth social etc for super right winger.
Right-wing propaganda would have you believe that most good things are left-wing (and thus bad).
Right-wing propaganda would have you believe that most good things are left-wing
One of the few things I agree with them on!
Education.
No for real, a lot of right-wing thinking comes from just parroting disinformation and being in their own echo chamber circles.
Educated people are more likely to ‘lean left’:
Environment: Higher education institutions often emphasize critical thinking, questioning of traditional norms, and exposure to diverse perspectives. This can lead individuals to adopt more progressive or liberal views.
Diversity: College and university settings are typically more diverse, exposing students to different cultures, ideas, and lifestyles.
Rationalism: Educated individuals may place a higher value on scientific reasoning and empirical evidence, which can align more with policies and positions typically associated with the left, such as support for climate change action and public health initiatives.
Perspective: Higher education can lead to an understanding of economic inequality and systemic issues. Educated individuals might support policies aimed at reducing inequality and improving social welfare.
Career: Many educated individuals work in fields such as academia, healthcare, and social services, where left-leaning values like equity, public good, and social justice are prevalent.
Generational: Younger generations, who are more likely to be college-educated today than in the past, tend to have more progressive views on social issues, such as LGBTQ+ rights and racial equality.
Education is also ‘pushed’ by a lot of adults when I was a kid. I thought it was kinda normal / lame because duh, of course it’s important. I didn’t get grasp deepl WHY until I was older and realized it’s really a root causal issue of today’s problems.
Educated people are more likely to ‘lean left’
I would qualify that as “Educated people with a conscience and a good ethical or moral base”.
There are plenty of very smart, very evil right wingers out there.
Mitch McConnell, Manchin, Shkrelli, Ben Shapiro… I suppose you have a point.
