Working from home is the best. Not everyone can do it, but those who can, should be allowed to. Return to office isn’t for us, it’s for them.
Working from home is the best.
Very difficult to build class solidarity when you’re atomized to the point of not even seeing one another’s real faces.
You don’t have to do that at work. You can do that at the library, bar, farmer’s market, etc. In fact, I’d rather do it with people near where I live, instead of people that share the other end of my commute.
You don’t have to do that at work.
:-/
The place you spend half your waking hours?
You can do that at the library, bar, farmer’s market, etc.
Do you have a job?
Do you have a job?
I don’t currently. Are you hiring computer programmers? I’ve got 20+ applications sent out via Indeed, but I haven’t found one yet.
Even when I was employed, I still visited the library, a few bars, and the saturday farmer’s market. While I don’t think visiting the bar is necessarily a must, you really should participate in your local library and farmer’s market. Connecting to your community is important.
Are you hiring computer programmers?
We are, in fact.
I’ll shoot you a DM.
Holy shit, if my comment turns into this dude scoring a position at your company, I’m sending you a Christmas card.
I get why you’re digging at them, but there was a period in my life I went to the bar after every workday. Now I have a child. But back then, that’s just how I met new people and socialized. Now I… just don’t really meet new people. Maybe I’ll start meeting other parents soon when it’s kindergarten time, but that’s about it.
I think this depends most on what kind of city you live in. I had an 8 minute walk from office to bar, and a 4 minute walk from bar to home. And the bar was on the way anyway.
It’s not even just about sustainability. It’s also largely about comfort (public transport is just 10x as comfortable as any car could be), price to the end consumer (public transport is typically much cheaper to the end consumer than cars, and that’s even by a lot), space management (compare how much space cars need vs. public transport) and all these things. it’s not just climate change.
Agree, it’s so much nicer.
No stress about searching parking spots, no cursing people driving too fast or slow… and reliable, fast, affordable and comfortable.
Political will is not even the problem; corruption, ie. corporatism and oligarchs are. They stand in the way of a truly public transit friendly society. None of the oligarchs are part of ‘us’.
And even if we consider cars,good driving experiences necessitate public transit, bicycle lanes, and walkability!
… Have you ever used public transportation in any major city? It is about the only instance in modern age where you are in a vehicle that may be going 50 kph and you are standing. If you are going to be making claims, I would drop that “10x as comfortable” bit.
Comfortable is probably the biggest reason most people don’t use public transportation. With their own cars, they don’t need to wait, they don’t need to worry about whether they are going to be packed like sardines because of the work rush, or forced to even wait for another pass because it got full before they were able to get on, or have to worry about getting cramps from not being able to sit, or having the transit take significantly more because it’s not direct, or pickpockets…
About the only comfortable thing about public transport is if you can get on it during off-peak hours when seats are available, in a route that doesn’t require a lot transfers, that isn’t much longer due to the stops and side-routing, and that doesn’t have a high wait time. All the stars have to align.
In comparison, bikes are probably the better option overall, and it would be epic if public transport started incorporating e-bike/scooter transit along with it. Unfortunately it seems to be quite the opposite where I live due to concerns about Lithium battery fires, but hopefully someone somewhere realizes that that is just a standardization issue.
packed like sardines
Some users smell like them too.
public transport is just 10x as comfortable as any car could be
Yes, nothing beats walking to a bus stop and waiting there in the cold, rain or burning sun, hoping the bus shows up in time or at all. Then stressing, because it being 15 minutes late probably means your connecting train will be gone. Oh yes, there it goes. Half an hour wait with no place to sit. And then repeat this two more times for more connecting trains and buses.
And I haven’t even talked about not being able to sit during train rides, or having to sit on back wrecking seats. Unfortunately I have back issues and after having enjoyed the ‘comfort’ of our public transport I often end up just not being able to stand or sit anymore at the end of the day because my back hurts so bad.
That is my average commute, and as a bonus there ultimately isn’t a difference in price here between taking the car or public transport. To top it off my average travel time is 60 minutes by car, 1.5 - 2 hours by public transport, often depending whether or not the first bus shows up in time.
It would be able to overlook a lot of this if it was feasible to do some work in the train, but with all the fragmentation on my route I never really get anything done.
I really would like to use public transport, as it is more sustainable than my gas guzzler, but each time I try it the experience just sucks so bad.
I’m with you entirely except for comfort. I think the only comfort advantage is that trains can have comparable leg room and you can standup.
I have never been on any type of mass transit where the seats were as comfortable as even a crappy car.
That’s ignoring system dependent stuff like cleanliness or the discomforts of being close to strangers.You can certainly clean more, put in better seats, and suck it up when it comes to strangers, but as it is right now, I struggle to see how you could say it’s more comfortable based purely on the amenities.
I struggle to see how you could say it’s more comfortable
easy, i don’t have to focus on the street for 50 minutes. that’s a big win for me.
Ah, I wouldn’t have called that comfort, more boredom. I still don’t agree on the comfort thing, but at least I can see where you’re coming from.
I’m tall and overweight. Even when I wasn’t overweight the seats have never been wide enough and I almost always have my knees pressed into the back of the seat in front of me. With the seat being too short as well, I usually end up with a fair bit of pain unless I can stand or get a seat without someone close in front of me.
It’s not really boredom, you have that time left to sleep, draw, read, or enjoy the scenery. All the more worth it for public transit.
It also takes cars off the road, meaning fewer and shorter traffic jams. Win in my book.
The seating is more of an issue with cars, I’ve felt. It’s always cramped and big cars are uncomfortable and unsafe. Hassle to park as well, and they end up costing you way more than it’s worth.
Yeah, for me the real status symbol is a bicycle and healthy legs. Or a good public transit card.
I mean, I used to be exclusively a bus rider or pedestrian, so I’m not unfamiliar with them. Sleeping is a bad choice because you can miss your stop, and at least in my experience the scenery is no different than you would get from the windshield.
Did like reading though, since that was relaxing. If I’m being fair though, taking a car for the trip I used to bus is fast enough that I wouldn’t find a book worth it.Does the seat softness not bother you? For me, seat softness and leg room are the two biggest drives for feeling uncomfortable and even the smallest car has more.
To be clear, I’m not saying public transit is bad. Far from it. If it were remotely viable for any of the trips I need to take it would be my go to. I just think that they could put more padding on the seats, make them a little larger, and give a touch more leg room.
Yeah in a world where transit isnt a shit show. In my city transit will take you 2 hours to get home when a car will take 20 minutes
That is exactly why we need better public transit.
Then you better be advocating for better public transit
That is true, which makes it so weird to get so much backlash from advocating for good transit in the first place.
Also driving by bike is often times overlooked. In my home town of 10k the supermarket has a us sized parking lot and is located right in the center… Its cheaper for you and others, healthier for you, others and the earth and its safer for others.
It’s not so much the advocating for good transit, it’s the using it as an attack on EVs. There’s no reason we can’t have both.
I live in a small town. The town has a couple vans that old people can call to be driven to the doctor. And like all government services and social safety nets, it’s gonna be gone by the time it’s my turn. If I’m going somewhere, it’s my car, my bike or my feet.
It’s amazing how much it takes for some to reach the conclusion that systemic change is both necessary and requires… systemic change. As in systems changing. As in greater change than your individual decision to ride an EV or ICEV or public transit. Change that would make it exponentially more intuitive for you to choose the most sustainable one of those options.
Especially if mass transit is not feasible for you, this post is not to shame you or call on you to try and do it anyways. It’s a recognition that riding mass transit is not feasible or intuitive for most people, and a call to make mass transit available to more people rather than investing all that time and energy into the wild goose chase of EV adoption.
The crying indian really did a number on us.
Horses are even more sustainable and renewable. And tasty if done right.
Where I live there is 0 public transport. I charge my EV with my own solar panels. So I think I am okay.
You are way better than the average car owner but it still takes a lot of energy to build an electric car. For the environment it would be even better if the batteries are used in buses and electric bikes, then more people can transport themselves with less pollution.
Of course, but they’re doing the best they can.
Next step would be attending city/town hall meetings, and slowly advocating for more and more public transit over time.
The dream of coast-to-coast public transit, the likes of which we saw before WWII, is still possible
You’re assuming a city / town.
In the US and for those that live outside of municipal boundaries and that live in unincorporated regions, lots of states have “townships” that are the default local government below county-level. Municipal corporations like towns and cities replace townships.
Still, those townships have local governments that can be engaged with politically.
And then there’s counties in the US which act as the local government overseeing townships, etc.
People’s political activism doesn’t have to start and end in towns/cities.
Do the have a local government capable of building effective municipal transport?
They might be able to put a bus on that takes half a day to cover all the scatted houses, but nobody is going to use it.
A bus network is a good first step, yes.
And why all the pushback against political action? You’re giving off doomer vibes.
Depends if they need a car. My bro is in a city with about 7 public transport options within 200 metres walk and has 2-3 EVs
Lots of money, not a lot of sense.
You shouldn’t live there.
So I take it you are personally funding his new home? How generous of you.
If I had control over the government, sure. I would get him a nice little apartment in a location where he doesn’t have to burden the rest of society with his libertarian fantasies.
Fortunately nothing you say is relevant or should be taken seriously because there’s a .ml after your name. It’s not possible for you to have a meaningful opinion.
Lol different post same thought-terminating bullshit
Lol! You’re so mad that you’re bringing old comments. This is hilarious. You .ml users really are all brain dead. You’re blocked now but please stop helping fascists get into power just because the Russian propaganda machine is telling you to. So fuckin sad honestly
Lol the best defense you’ve got for being caught repeating the same moronic bullshit post after post is “ur mad”
Sure, if ignorance is your preferred tool, I wouldn’t dream of suggesting otherwise.
That’s great if public transport goes from near where you are to near where you want to be, in a reasonable time.
For me that’s not the case. Anywhere I want to go takes 27 changes over at least 5 hours for a net distance of three miles; it’d be quicker to hop backwards blindfold on a bent pogo stick.
people who argue for public transport argue for better implementation of it (and also city planning that supports it). the idea isn’t for everyone to just stop using cars in favor of public transport even if the public transport system is absolute shit. it’s for systemic support of public transport in such a way that commuters would willingly choose it over being stuck in traffic in their little metal boxes for hours.
it’s a criticism of the system, not the people.
That’s what decades of car centric urban design does to everyone; any transportation other than a car is treated as a second class
While there’s something to that, it’s also a difficult fact that rail is just harder than roads, and by extension more expensive. You have hills? You are going to need to do tunnels and bridges for the rail because you can’t turn that sharply and you mustn’t have more than 1.5% grade. For road, just snake it around and up and down the hills.
You have a source and destination that not many people will be using? It’s cost prohibitive to run a whole train or bus to cover that route.
Now it’s one thing when the population distribution was based around settling around the harsh realities of needing to be along viable transit paths, but when a great deal of the population settled with the assumption of roads, you are going to have a hard time sorting out transit routes without mass resettlement.
Of course, if you apply mass transit to cities and nearby areas you’ve gotten the worst of the troubles solved and it’s viable for mass transit. But cars are just part of the equation for longer hauls.
Biking three miles takes about 15 minutes, you should do that instead
Three miles is like the Perfect distance to ride a bike. Why even get into a car?
Well, if op is from the US, it’s probably because our infrastructure makes cycling way more dangerous than it needs to be.
Thats true. :(
It’s great to see that Skeletor and all his “likes” will be switching from gas cars to public transit.
US public transportation is pathetic, but prior to the 1960’s it was quite extensive only to be destroyed by the oil and automobile lobbyists.
And if they’re hadn’t thrashed the railcars, the cities might look wildly different.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy
Thing is, we are where we are now. We can’t just tear down all the cities and start over. We have to deal with what we’ve got.
I mean, Europe hasn’t torn it’s cities down (well not all of them and not for rebuilding purposes anyway) despite managing to utilise good public transport.
Then again guess your point is rather that American cities were built stupidly car centric and that somehow those can’t be replaced with any sort of public transport?
It’s also collectivizing the solution rather than expecting us each to address the problem on an individual level that doesn’t change the status quo one iota.
Electric cars are a type of vehicle. Public transit is a type of transportation system that include many different types of vehicles and can include electric cars.
You’re comparing apples to orchards.
They aren’t doing that, you are. The apples to apples comparison that they are making is our current transit system; with the cars being fully electrified but otherwise as it exists today; versus a transit system that prioritizes mass transit (and walking and biking) over personal vehicles.
Electric cars are a solution to save the auto industry, not the climate.
Maybe in your bubble it’s common parlance that “electric cars” = “electrifying mass private vehicle infrastructure”, but from the outside, that’s not a straightforward interpretation.
I’m just letting you know the most good faith interpretation of this post, in case you missed it. I’m not interested in arguing about “common parlance”
Bike/Electric scooter + public transport is a peak mobility, but public transport isn’t even built for that :(
Fr, if the British gov stopped arresting every one who rides an electric scooter then the bus might actually be an attractive option
Well I mean Ireland doesn’t arrest electric scooters but you can’t bring them into transport because, ahem, batteries can explode.
so can a lot of things
I mean from engineering perspective batteries in the board part do get damaged when you damage the board by hitting the floor, and they have increased chances to catch fire when your charge them. And when they do, they fucking destroy everything around. You can’t really stop it either.
Key point: when you charge them. There is no reason to assume that would happen in tram or something.
Trains and buses have banned them anyway so it limits their use as a last mile solution as you typical need them both ends of the public transport
You also need to fix the karen problem that plagues society. I don’t like getting called a slur or “go back to where you came from”, and its very bad when you’re stuck inside the small space as them. (By “karen” I don’t mean just white women, but the attitude of some people, anyone can become a karen)
We really need to eliminate karen mentality.
I really fucking hate that a normal ass female name became a synonym for “entitled person”
My friend’s work is over an hour from his house by public transport—if public transport is working, and it’s a weekday. If it isn’t working well, if it’s late, if it’s a weekend or holiday, then it’s closer to two hours (or more).
It’s 15 minutes max by car.
And he lives in a place with good public transportation.
Until we improve how public transportation runs, so that it really is designed around how people need to get from A to B, cars are going to be the more popular choice.
Yes but that is never going to happen without putting restraints on the auto industry, which puts big money into preventing public transit from being built, and if its already exists, to destroy it.
Car culture is killing us. I get you’re trying to be pragmatic but more is necessary.
I really hate that shit. To suburbs? Sure, that’s acceptable cox public transportation prioritizes high density areas.
To city to another city and public transportation takes double of driving? That’s bad design. Infrastructure that prioritizes cars no matter the population density is not sustainable, whether that’s shown as car traffic or massive deficit to keep roads maintained
No, it’s not good public transportation. Good public transportation is faster and cheaper than a car. That’s terrible public transportation, just because other places are even worse it doesn’t mean that one is good.
Well, ‘good’ by US standards.
Wish we had Japan standards :(
Bikes combined with public transit usually cut down those times massively. And to ask—good, or good by usa standards? Cities in Germany or japan are impressive with how fast you can get places by train.
Also-- people being unwilling to trade a bit of convenience in exchange for a better world is a major part of the problem. I got off my car and started biking for everything, and it was easy. More people could easily do the same. Combined with trains, I can go very far.
You can not ride a bike on our roads. There are no buses or trains.
You can not ride a bike on our roads
What’s stopping you?
The roads are deadly. I’ve lived here almost 20 years and I have seen exactly one person trying to ride on these roads. There are some places with bikes in the ditch on the side of the road with crosses as memorials. You can’t walk the roads either.
If its 15 mins by car it’s likely a gentle 30 mins ride. A small vespa or motorbike has to be better than a car for that sort of distance - we need to avoid thinking car is the only private transport solution
That doesn’t work when the weather in the winter is always below 0c
Yes, it does. Don’t be a naysayer when you haven’t tried it; it isn’t as daunting as it seems
For him it’s more the heavy rain and lack of safe bike paths… but that’s another discussion.
Holy crap does it ever not.
Speaking from past lived experience trying to get to work in -30c weather in my old city, and the once-every-half-hour bus is either full, late, or broken down. FORGET that noise.
It’s definitely better where I am now l, but vast swaths of cityscape in my country are massively underserved, and I would assert that calling it “daunting” is comically trivializing the daily stress of trying to make a schedule happen in those cases.
Just telling someone to buck up and endure that is extremely condescending; you’ll win so few allies to your cause with this approach (which I, incidentally l, support). You’re basically saying their time is of little to no value, and what they want to accomplish with it doesn’t matter. And time is the only true non-renewable resource in your life, kids.
So, I say thee: nay.
I’m not speaking without doing. I’ve done as cold as it gets in my city, which is admittedly short of -30c, probably closer to -23c. This is about bikes, not buses. (But honestly goes for both!)
People aren’t going to like being told it. But I’m ever of the opinion that people who whine when told they’re wrong are not ever going to be the ones changing in the first place. They merely sit there, in the comfort of the car, justifying their decision by pretending the gas guzzling environment harming and dangerous vehicles are somehow justified by the small amount of lightly discomfortable weather and short bikeable rides.
You’re basically saying their time is of little to no value, and what they want to accomplish with it doesn’t matter
It’s not of little value. It’s the amount saved by driving is not worth it. For them and for others.
Bikes would be even worse imo. Your uphill battle just got much steeper. You’re also not helping anything by making the sweeping generalizations you seem to enjoy making.
I can’t say I have heard it before from countless others (to precisely no avail), but regardless, best of luck in gathering momentum for your cause.
Bikes are not even half as hard as you think they are.
best of luck in gathering momentum for your cause.
Thankfully, there’s already significant momentum, bike lanes and transit are growing stronger.
Edited: accidental double post.
deleted by creator
I know people that cycle all year round and where I live it is decidedly colder and snowier than that all winter.
It does for me (southern uk) but to be fair doesn’t often go beyond - 5 and.im driven by something more powerful than environmentalism - cheapness! :)
Edit: I see you said constant below freezing, yeah fair point, that would tip the balance
Something even easier to implement than public transit is treating e-scooters and e-bikes like first class citizens. Governments love to restrict their speed to make them uncompetitive with cars without an easy legal alternative.
As a cyclist, electric motorbikes are already a thing and belong in the traffic lanes. I’m not sharing a cycle path with idiots doing 40mph.
Yeah I’ve got an e-bike and there’s no way those motorcycles belong in the bike lane. If the motor can send you that fast, it’s no longer a bicycle…
I was thinking of getting an electric motorcycle at one point but a regular bike is so much cheaper and I don’t really need it.
We recently moved to a very bike friendly city in California, and it’s a night and day difference to where we had moved from in Texas. There are bike lanes, and bike racks EVERYWHERE.
There is also a heavily used e-bike/e-scooter service available as well. Its been a genuine game changer.
Separate lanes and bike racks all over the place means that the e-scooters aren’t ditched all over the sidewalk AND the separate bike lanes do not disrupt traffic so the drivers don’t hate them either. We’ve only used our vehicle for commuting to work since moving here. For everything else, we walk, bike, or scooter. Bought a little collapsible wagon for grocery shopping too!
AND the separate bike lanes do not disrupt traffic so the drivers don’t hate them either.
Oh, they usually still hate them. In there minds, that’s a lane of traffic that got taken away. For those people, I usually like to point out an unused sidewalk and complain that those damned pedestrians are also taking away perfectly good driving space.
Speed while moving is almost never the most important variable in local transport time, waiting is. Just slow down. The same is true for cars.
It’s important for safety. Bike lanes are not common, and I don’t want to be stuck going 15mph on a road where the cars zoom past at 35mph or more.
I doubt speed is an adequate consideration here. Especially considering lack of dedicated protection like helmets and other coverings. Access, usability, price (assuming rental), and dedicated protected lanes for travel are much more important, but harder to manage.
I’m talking about owning your own e-scooter. It’s not hard to gear up for the ride. Protected lanes with limited speeds are an ideal, but the truth is that you need bursts of more speed on most of our sprawling suburbs in the US.
