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A confounding issue is the apps themselves have gotten worse over time. Like, old okcupid you could search. You could type in like “final fantasy” or “the Mets” and find people who liked those things enough to put them on their profile.
Now you’re limited to whatever the app decides to give you. Well, the app doesn’t want you to leave so that incentive doesn’t line up.
A lot of the more popular ones, okcupid included, all got bought up by Match Group and almost immediately started trending anti-consumer in their updates or removal of features. They want you paying, they don’t give a shit about success.
100%. Match group should be broken up.
It’s an especially insidious type of monopoly to me because it deals with relationships, they can manipulate millions of people, affecting the creation of their families and kids.
Surprised that the religious right haven’t put them in their sites.
Close, they actively fight success. Legally obligated to, even. It’s their fiduciary responsibility to keep you using the app.
So capitalism is incompatible with dating apps. Who woulda thunk?
That’s not really how that works.
I’d love for you to be right. Please elaborate.
You don’t have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profit, or anything like that. You have a responsibility to act in accordance to company rules and guidelines, and to act in the company’s interest, not your own.
There is no requirement to burn to company down to maximize short-term profits, like some people think. That’s usually at the expense of long-term profits anyway, so it could be better for profits to do something better for the customer.
You’re only required to act “ethically” and keep the company’s interests above your own.
If the company has a goal to make more money every year, then you can justify a lot of actions in that pursuit. And once they have a monopoly you kinda don’t have many options, so they can push more.
Saying they have a responsibility to keep you on the app may sound silly, but app user churn is most likely measured and has some goal around it. And if a goal is set around that churn then they very much have an obligation to keep you on there as long as possible.
There’s the alternative of trying to obtain more users, or also to retain users by being a better service (although it has to appeal to a different demographic than those trying to leave for this though).
They have a pretty universally bad name now, so obtaining new users only gets harder, and a lot of people leave even without finding a long term match because the service is shit. They can optimize for these factors without burning the place down.
They have no requirement to grow year over year either. That has nothing to do with fiduciary responsibility. It just keeps stock value growing. Prioritizing long term health at the expense of short term gains is perfectly fine a legal.
You also had decent profiles where you could write more texts about you. That could give you an idea of who that person is. There is a difference between “Tea or Coffee? - Tea.” and “Tea or Coffee? - I like green teas but also some black teas like assam. I sometimes bake scones to eat with the tea.” A lit of modern apps don’t even give you the option to show your personality more.
I met my husband on Plenty of Fish 7/8 years ago. This baffles me, they don’t let you type your own content to show your personality? How are you supposed to get a feel for someone then?
OkCupid used to actually work rather well at finding compatible people who were actually honest about what they were looking for.
Then it got bigger, got acquired, and the matching model of the whole industry was intentionally modified to be more monetizable, and to keep giving matches that are close, but not close enough to be truely long term compatible.
You aren’t using the app/website anymore if it works and gets you a successful long term match.
You are using the app for a longer time if you keep getting close but just missing the mark.
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Do people not think their dating app is tracking… how many matches and text exchanges they have?
How much time elapses between you matching, chatting, leaving… and then going back to swiping?
And then multidimensional matrix comparing that to every other definable variable about you?
Including whether or not you say you’re looking for something long term, or serious… but you actually keep cycling through people?
These algos, these things… they know exactly to what extent you lie to yourself and others, and they weaponize that to keep people in a sort of optimal (for the app, not you), constant disappointment loop.
…
Everything digital is now way beyond ‘if its free, you are the product’.
The model is now entirely attention, addiction based, and manipulating your emotions in as close to real time as possible is absolutely integral to all this.
People forget that over a decade ago, Zuckerberg said his dream was to be able to predict with high accuracy what any given Facebook user would post next.
Nearly a decade ago, Netflix CEO or some such stated ‘our primary competitor is sleep’.
People largely do not realize the extent to which these corpo fucks have been running highly precise and targeted manipulation of every aspect of human behavior… all to drive goddamn ad revenue and market share, ie, entrench themselves as institutions the modern world is no longer imaginable without.
I’m just confused as to how there isn’t a dating app that is better.
short answer:
Dating Apps/Sites are basically social media sites, they only really work via the network effect, by being so huge that they necessitate significant financial investment.
…
long answer:
A dating app is only broadly, mass appeal successful if it can scale to have a wide selection of people, users, ideally, in as many places as possible.
This requires a large amount of servers.
A large amount of servers requires a large amount of money.
A large amount of money requires investors.
Investors require as much profit as possible.
…
A conventional dating site/app, as we think of the big ones today… its a social media platform.
Just with a different, more constrained feature set, a different UI… but roughly similar levels of network infrastructure and overhead.
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You could actually make a reasonable argument for running a non profit, or … some kind of collectively owned and operated dating service that is restricted to say a city or small region, or maybe a neighborhood in a larger city.
(Indeed, many of the older ones kind of began this way, pitched more like a … a club that you join and pay membership dues for, thats how they were marketed in the late 90s / early 00s… though these of course were largely actually privately owned, but the marketing angle was that of ‘exclusive community’)
The technicals of exactly how to do that, legally and financially, might end up being impractical though… and if the government is directly involved, well… 10, 20 years ago I would say thats a rather serious privacy problem, but at least in the US right now, I am sure Tinder will sell your info to a data broker who sells it to the FBI if they want to investigate you, so… yeah.
The other obvious problem is that the best dating app is the one you use the least… so… some kind of unconventional payment structure would have to be figured out, to counteract this massive and glaring incentive conflict between app and user.
Maybe high upfront fixed costs to the user, but if you don’t find a good match after a year, 75% gets refunded to you?
Not sure. Could be legal nightmare.
…
Other than that, privately owned and operated dating communities can work fairly well without huge server overhead… if they are precisely targeted at a pretty specific kind of people, be it a religion, or a bdsm community, or a specific ethnicity, who knows… those can at least theoretically work at a larger geographic scale, because that kind of scale doesn’t also massively ramp up user count.
But there’s nothing stopping them from being bought out if they get too big.
…
Bonus!
Job application / recruiting sites are also basically dating apps/sites.
Its just person vs job instead of person vs person.
Broadly, guys on dating sites have been flooding women with match requests for years now, women have been overwhelmed by the volume and believe they can be very picky.
Now replace ‘guys’ with ‘job seekers’, ‘match requests’ with ‘applications’ and ‘women’ with ‘companies’.
Both scenarios result in wasteful amounts of energy going into ‘match-making’, which is horrendously inefficient.
Wow, that’s an incredibly insightful answer. I suppose I never considered the scale of it. Most are fairly bare bones, but you are right, there are so many users and repeat users that it would scale very poorly.
You’re also right on the social media part of it. There kindof needs to be secondary engagement thing to attract and support the community.
Always felt that dating apps were a little too ?accesible? That is to say that they are exceedingly easily flooded by no or low effort profiles, abandoned and duplicate profiles. Especially by desperate men who are completely undiscerning and undereducated (consent, sex, sexuality, etc…).
I feel like there should be engagement/social/education tiers that grant more access to more features. Like literally give points if you can pass tests on consent, relationships, kink, whatever. Get social points from good engagement and behavior. These don’t show your profile more or less, but like if the medium has NSFW features, forums, criteria/location filtering it gives access to them based on community trust and such. Maybe offer a paid shortcut, but have that declared on their profile somehow.
Could be nice. But I’d also probably have the swiping style app be accessory to a more traditional forum.
I feel like there should be engagement/social/education tiers that grant more access to more features. Like literally give points if you can pass tests on consent, relationships, kink, whatever. Get social points from good engagement and behavior. These don’t show your profile more or less, but like if the medium has NSFW features, forums, criteria/location filtering it gives access to them based on community trust and such. Maybe offer a paid shortcut, but have that declared on their profile somehow.
I like this line of thinking.
I more or less used to use OkCupid in this way… it has so many questions you can answer that basicsally, if you have your own set of hard red flags… just look through their answers to questions.
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You could theorerically do a paid shortcut for some things, but not others.
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With my gamer brain, the first thing that comes to mind is pay to win games:
You can design a game such that… you can reasonably progress through the game, get good items, level up reasonably quickly… without having to spend any more real world money.
Warframe is arguably a good example of this.
You can just play a fleshed out and enjoyable game and progress at a reasonable rate without spending any real world money, everything in the game is obtainable without more money if you’re good at the game… but if you just have cash to burn, you csn just outright buy some high level gear, basically, to say, join up with some friends who’ve been playing for a long time, without playing for 50 or 100 hours to be on their level.
…
But you can also make it just an absolutely hellish slog to progress through the game, such that you finally get tired of grinding and have that ‘fuck it!’ moment, and just pay to progress… and then you at first find those payments are rather cheap actually… but if you keep playing, the actual money costs ramp up faster and faster, alongside your time devoted to the game, so now you’ve got sunk cost and your brain sunk cost fallacy’s you into just still playing and spending.
This is pretty much how WarThunder is designed.
…
But uh yeah, ramble ramble… I like your basic framework here, but again the problem with monetization is thag is has to be reasonable and apparent to everyone, your idea of badges that show everyone this is I think good.
I am just very worried that if this whole app is privately owned… it will inevitably enshittify and subvert itseld to being an evil money draining skinner box as it attracts more investors or gets new owners or goes public or whatever.
…
EDIT:
oh right
Wow, that’s an incredibly insightful answer.
Thank you! =D
I just got so sick of using the apps and their crappy interface. I can never remember if left is good, or right is good. Who designed that was a good idea?
The interface literally tells you as you do it which is which…
They are making a mentally ill frankenspecies.
Fuck me that’s bad, last I used it was in 2019, and even then it wasn’t fantastic.
Looking forward to getting back on dating apps at 38
Look, I did it at 47. Take the time to make a good profile, ask for help on pics and be an authentic you. It’s a mess out there, for those that never try.
ask for help on pics
I would like to second this point, especially if you’re not practiced at taking selfies. I’ve seen some fine looking men IRL whose profile pictures looked like potato.
It doesn’t have to be this way. People like to help, and most would be happy to see you meet someone special. Might as well ask.
I may or may not be one of these people that suck at selfies. But damn if my profile pics weren’t top amateur talent from my sister. I may not have had dating life partner success(yet), but I’ve had a good number of dates that went some distance.
I repeat for those not listening: Effort pays off.
Thirded. People like to think that their match will be deep enough to look past something superficial like a bad photo, but that’s not how most of us work. People see a decent photo and then check the rest.
You don’t have to be a model or movie star. Good lighting. Clothes that fit. A background that’s not, like, a dingy bathroom or your car.
The pics part is weird because it’s like… I’m supposed to have other people’s photos of me? I don’t have photos of me. Why would I take a photo of the same thing I see every morning like I’m just trying to say hello to the world, like I’m an actually happy, well-adjusted person who wants to update all of his friends on his day… oh, that’s, ok. I get it now. That’s why.
Yep. It takes a minute to break that mindset. Worse is remembering on trips, like on my last one I forgot to take a pic while walking the amazing vineyard.
Feels like a meat market, but the effort helps.
If they aren’t divorced they are probably crazy.
Target the divorced MILFs. That’s your best bet. This also applies if you’re a cis-het woman.
You can do it!
I still remember when bumble had to change their entire premise and business model because as it turns out women are worse at starting conversations than men lmao.
I wholeheartedly believe that the Internet and smart phones have been the biggest double edge swords in human history. We have the entire globes collected knowledge at our fingertips with the ability to connect with any other person on the planet instantly and it has caused the largest shift in loneliness and depression ever.
Humans simply are not wired for social media and the Internet. Seeing every single person you know posting themselves beautiful and dressed up doing the coolest things 24/7 will make anyone feel ugly and like they aren’t doing anything with their lives. It takes real focused effort to remember that people (generally) only post when they are doing something special and what you don’t see are the days or weeks between posts that show they live the same boring life you live.
I’m ranting for no reason. I think when we lost in person social gatherings as the primary method of meeting new people is when society kicked that concrete block off the cliff. Right now we are just waiting for the rope to snap taught and drag us all into the abyss.
Every starting conversation on Bumble was like:
“Hey”
In my experience the bot and scam scripts have become refined enough to seem exactly like a pretty disengaged or disenchanted user, or someone not confident in what they’re doing. It’s led to some awkward moments when I suddenly send “BOT CHECK”
If that happend, it triggered me so hard. Its like the insanest thing ever. Why are you even on bumble then.
Why are you expecting conversations to be otherworldly?
How many conversations in real life with people you like start with something akin to “hey”? I’m gunna bet most but I suppose I could be wrong.
From what I saw, it wasn’t just “hey”. Hey was the yellow flag.
It was all the one word responses. To everything. It was the job of the guy to be entertaining on the app to barely any response.
That takes its toll on men, especially when there were women who used it as a source of free entertainment.
There is a whole universe of possibilities between “hey” and a conversation so good it is otherworldly.
Most of these apps, the user has a profile. If they’re not fucking it up, the profile has topics to talk about.
“Hey! Your profile says you love the mets. Do you go to a lot of games? I used to go with my pop, but he just watches the game on TV now” isn’t stellar but it’s significantly better.
If the other person responds with “Nah [end of communication]” then they’re doing a bad job. I’d see that all the time and it drove me crazy.
You both seem to ignore the fact that conversation is two way and that conversations from nothing ie. Small talk is extremely off-putting.
How am I ignoring that conversation is two way? I specifically mentioned it’s a bad job when one person engages and the other half-asses it with one word responses.
I don’t see what small talk being off-putting has to do with anything. I don’t know if I even consider talking about your interests small talk, but okay. How else do you expect it to work?
We just agreed that isn’t half assing it, it’s a normal introduction.
Polite and informal conversation with no functional purpose.
It’s relevant because that’s all small talk bro, what you’re describing is small talk. It’s worthless and mostly annoying.
I would expect something else then one word if you select the Dating platform where the big difference is that you have to write first as a women. It seems odd to me.
But probably tinder or the other dating platforms are just (as) shitty and it didn’t have any deeper thought about joining bumble.
A couple times I asked people directly if that opener worked for them.
One of them said, “I used to write more thoughtful first messages, but I didn’t get good results so I don’t bother anymore.” I told her that writing a bad opener is likely turning away whole classes of people, likely the more thoughtful and interesting ones, but she didn’t care. I said we weren’t a good match and moved on.
Another one said, “But you responded so it worked!”. Her profile was also largely blank. I said yeah, but it didn’t make me want to date you. It was a bad first impression that made me think you’re a half-asser. Rude, I know. The conversation ended shortly after.
I think communication is a skill that requires practice and feedback. Writing messages on dating apps is a more specialized form of that skill. I have years of practice now (sad, but here we are). A 30 year old woman downloading bumble for the first time, asked to write first messages? That’s kind of like putting someone on the baseball field who’s never played before. They probably know most of the rules intellectually, and in other parts of life they’ve done all the little pieces like throwing, running, and catching, but doing it all together at the right time? Not likely to go well at first.
This was eloquently written and I enjoyed reading your insights. I found your closing metaphor particularly apt!
Taut*
Humans simply are not wired for social media and the Internet. Seeing every single person you know posting themselves beautiful and dressed up doing the coolest things 24/7 will make anyone feel ugly and like they aren’t doing anything with their lives. It takes real focused effort to remember that people (generally) only post when they are doing something special and what you don’t see are the days or weeks between posts that show they live the same boring life you live.
I’ve never seen a friend post on social media about something and then felt sad. I’ve instead thought “That looks awesome! Good for them! I can’t wait to do something like that too, I’m inspired!”
I think when we lost in person social gatherings as the primary method of meeting new people
This is something only chronically online people say. Most people form almost all of their relationships offline. This is still extremely true of platonic relationships. Online dating has increased in popularity, but mostly this is among people with niche tastes or in remote locations, where finding a match is more difficult due to the rarity of finding potential partners in real life. Tons of people still date primarily via their social circle or community gatherings, and most people use a mix of all their options.
Given who runs “online”, that’s kind of worrying.
who runs
With these knees? I’m known to promenade gingerly online.
This is something only chronically online people say. Most people form almost all of their relationships offline. This is still extremely true of platonic relationships.
Where are you meeting these people, magic real life wizard?
Of the 5 I currently have in my roster, 2 came from online, 2 were friends of friends, 1 I introduced myself to at a rock climbing crag.
I also seek out partners at my job, at the climbing gym, at various meetups like for acroyoga or fire spinning or pickup ultimate Frisbee, at social bars or concerts or festivals, or just when I’m walking around in the park near my house. Importantly, I’m not just going up to every attractive woman I see and saying “nice tits, wanna bang?” - even though this is my truth in my heart of hearts. Instead what I do is show up, have fun, meet people, joke around, and just be a normal person. But then if someone is cute, I’ll do a little eyebrow wiggle or some shit during a break in the conversation, and if she eyebrow wiggles back, I escalate - like by tickling the back of her elbow or telling her that she’s, like, literally the worst why am I even talking to her. And then at the end of the night I say “hey, I think you’re cute - wanna hang out alone sometime and maybe do some smoochin’?” And then she says yes or no, I give her a high five either way, and I’m on my merry way.
Edit: I’ll point out that the number of partners I have from online is mostly because I have a good profile, so getting matches is pretty easy for me. Most people don’t have as high of a sex drive as me, and so won’t want to put in the effort. Going through social networks (real life social networks) or social hobbies is far more likely to net you compatible partners, since the choices you make in these arenas are likely to attract people with similar values and dispositions.
Well, that was a lot more than I bargained for. Also, gross.
if you are presenting yourself to the world at large would you not want to showcase your best self?
“no let me show myself in my skivvies talking to my therapist!” doesn’t seem like a lure for attracting a partner. just my two cents. And I am of the opinion that online dating is awkward, but that is about it.
I’ve been curious if a government-run dating app could do better - if its goal is to achieve genuine engagement, not cycles of frustration that boost subscription rates.
This is one of many subjects where capitalist concern ruins the product (and that’s not even something I say as often as others on Lenny)
Honestly, 90% of the need for dating apps would vanish if people had more free time away from work and well-kept public spaces for entertainment that didn’t expect you to purchase anything.
So rather than a government-run dating app, how about a government-sanctioned 4 day work week and well kept public parks?
But who makes the profit in your silly goose scenario? Somebody has to be making money or it’s a terrible idea!
This is what we call long-term investment a taxman wins once you have kids
I don’t know if I buy that. I think people simply like hiding behind a screen for many interactions these days - including dating.
Not that Im against your idea but maybe just the 90% part seems inflated.
Perhaps, but we would need to put the idea in practice to determine what’s the cause/effect relationship here.
Are people more addicted to their screens because the real world became hostile, or is the real world becoming hostile because people are glued to their screens?
I’d bet on the first option, but I could be wrong.
Real relationships require a vulnerability that dating apps can not provide
I love my screen time but if there was free ping pong somewhere outside or something I’d go there a lot. Same for rock climbing, board game spaces… I’d get out for a lot. Screen time is a cheap substitute for this real stuff.
Yet again, low-density exclusionary zoning causing car-dependency (which is why the “third spaces” you’re talking about have all-but disappeared) is revealed as the root cause of almost every problem we have.
I run a social club for gay men, and we’ve talked about coming up with an app that’s run by a non-profit, with social workers on the board, that’s designed to actually connect people, not keep them glued to the app. Friendship, dates, activity partners, whatever.
I don’t know why no one has come up with the non-profit model here but if I can get enough steam, we’re doing it.
But even non-profits need to pay for operating costs like salary and cloud fees. Where would you get the funding for that?
The app doesn’t need to be free, and the revenue stream won’t dry up if it actually works because people break up, and there are so many fucking people that even in a zero sum scenario it would take forever to reach saturation.
Sorry if I come off like a butthole but I’m both curious yet dubious of the idea. I feel like people probably have thought about it but they probably ran into the same problems you’ll run into.
You didn’t quite answer my question. Where are you getting revenue? Eg. Subscription, one-time fees for X, grants, investments, etc?
Duallingo started like a non-profit but even their revenue with its massive userbase couldn’t cover their expenses so they had to compromise hard to keep the lights on. The same happened to Coffee Meets Bagel. Hinge started with the same premise of “this app is meant to be deleted” but they also had to compromise and eventually sold to Match Group.
Also, I feel like gay men are a unique demographic that has higher that average engagement so Grindr is probably in a uniquely advantaged position to resist enshitification.
I guess I’m just saying it’s probably in practice a cost center like city infrastructure or schools or research, so it might only work without heavy compromises if it’s also funded by taxes.
Where are we getting the funds for Lemmy and its instances?
It’s almost as if men are a little bit hornier than women…
That’s an outdated, lazy, and inaccurate generalization.
Women are just as horny as men but straight women experience higher risks engaging in dating than gay men experience resulting in more caution and selectivity engagement.
Straight women who are able to have as much sex as they want tend to be those who are in stable, long-term relationships. The bottleneck is safety as a hard requirement for sex.
I mean, maybe we need to define horny, this may be a semantics issue,
But no, you’re very wrong. In general men are way more horny, but we may be looking for different things to solve the horniness issue…
Men’s sex drive is not only consistently higher than women’s, but it is more consistent over time and more consistent across individuals as well
You said capitalism and summoned your resident anticapitalist. How can I be of assistance, comrade. :D
Might not be a great idea, tbh.
This isn’t what was suggested here at all.
That’s how it’ll end up though.
Although with all the Nazism going on in Silicon Valley, there’s a good chance that’s what they’ve been attempting all along.
I can’t wait for TRUMPDate. Make America Date Again. Can’t go wrong.
“App” and “genuine engagement” are 2 things that don’t go together.
I would prefer something defederated over government owned.
National Lampoon had an article once called ‘Girls of the Soviet Block’. When you said government run dating app, it made me think how hilarious that turned out.
Ha!
As a middle aged man you think its great for us? You think all the hot, sane, independent women in their 30s and 40s are strugging for options? If you’re on there theres a 80% chance that you’re no catch either.
Last time my dude showed me a bunch of profiles it was easily 50% “applications to be a stepdad” and 25% women with a checklist (6 foot tall, good living, own house, etc.) Like 6 foot tall athletic lawyers who own their own home are having trouble meeting women.
You think all the hot, sane, independent women in their 30s and 40s are strugging for options?
You’d be surprised… My wife is in a professional dance company full of single ladies ranging in age from 20s to late 30’s. Most of them are on the struggle bus when it comes to finding a decent partner who isn’t a lazy bum or a rampant misogynist.
Tbh most of the dudes in long term relationships with the dancers are just regular everyday dudes. Imo the bar is pretty low nowadays considering that like 1/3 of dudes have been brain poisoned by Joe Rogan/Jordan Peterson.
Married dude here who has a lot of single dude friends. 1/3 is accurate.
And if it’s not Rogan, it’s some other right-adjacent influencer. It’s fucking weird too. They’re regular dudes, helping old ladies on the street and supporting a neighbor. Then suddenly, they crack and share how terrible women are.
Then you got women who are on the other side, complaining about how terrible men are.
I don’t understand it.
I mean, when there’s less cross-interaction nowadays and everyone’s in their own bubbles prevent a challenge their preconceptions, it makes sense.
This is affecting all facets of society, politics even.
Also there’s survivor bias: there is also the fact that on these platforms, the impact of assholes in the dating pool is much greater then the good ones, because it’s the same assholes being cycle through the system, whereas the good ones have already reached the terminal state and found their partner.
And if it’s not Rogan, it’s some other right-adjacent influencer. It’s fucking weird too. They’re regular dudes, helping old ladies on the street and supporting a neighbor. Then suddenly, they crack and share how terrible women are.
Yeah… Idk what it’s all about. A lot of the girls in the company have issues with dudes who like the idea of hooking up with a dancer, then as soon as they get in a committed relationship they want them to quit because they get insanely jealous of other people watching them dance.
The younger crowd of men seem to be super possessive and simultaneously believe that girls only have sex to get things they want and at the same time are massive sluts who can’t be trusted not to cheat…
then as soon as they get in a committed relationship they want them to quit because they get insanely jealous of other people watching them dance.
I think a lot of people are really bad at managing their emotions, especially jealousy.
A friend was telling me about her friend and that friend’s boyfriend. They’d go to concerts together, and the guy would get like super raging jealous that she was dancing in the crowd. Like, grow fucking up. She’s super into you, why are you destroying this relationship? Let her fucking dance.
Honestly, some of the women I see have profiles that are basically demanding an incredible amount of labor from their potential partners.
No coffee dates, no walks. They want something planned out multiple days a week and in exchange they’ll put up with you grunting on top of them.
They want something planned out multiple days a week and in exchange they’ll put up with you grunting on top of them.
Lol, women enjoy sex as well my dude. With an opinion like that it kinda sounds like you may be stepping on your own feet there.
I’m referring to these particular women, not women as a whole.
There’s a type of woman who are essentially asexual, never masturbates, says they don’t really need sex, but still wants to be in a heterosexual relationship from either societal expectations or because they think a boyfriend is useful in other aspects of their life.
And there are some dudes who only want sex and aren’t willing to put any work into building an actual relationship outside the bedroom. My point being is that there are lots of different attitudes out there, but the vast majority of people are just normal people wanting healthy relationships.
I think social media has really segregated people from reality and has warped people’s interpretation of others. It feels as if everyone believes they are the last “normal” person in society and everyone else is just intrinsically antagonistic.
The bar isn’t low. Not being a lazy bum or misogonyst is the bare minimum (as it should be). The real bar is multiple bars in form of a 110 meters hurdles. You have to jump over all of them. Everything below that and the other person will feel as if they are settling.
Not being a lazy bum or misogonyst is the bare minimum (as it should be).
Idk, just judging by any post containing gender discourse on Lemmy…seems to be a pretty big hurdle for a lot of dudes.
You have to jump over all of them. Everything below that and the other person will feel as if they are settling.
That may just be a product of being younger. By the time you get to my age both men and women seem to be wanting to settle down and are more likely to compromise with the idea of an imperfect partnership.
That may just be a product of being younger. By the time you get to my age both men and women seem to be wanting to settle down and are more likely to compromise with the idea of an imperfect partnership.
I dealt with my share of toxic relationships. Happened in my late teens and early twenties. Late 20s and early 30s is when I and all my friends met good people we wanted sticking around and all got married.
Same
Social media is raising expectations to unrealistic levels. As if Hollywood wasn’t bad enough for past generations.
I saw a girl on tiktok say something similar about how after a shit day at work she will look at hinge and be even further upset about the people who have liked her on hinge, as though this is all she deserves in life.
It sounds extremely depressing out there these days.
That sounds very entitled of her. She can choose whom to like back. And if she isn’t happy with the options she has, she can go swipe on her own.
Let’s be honest, most men that use dating apps are those looking for hookups. So if you’re a woman looking for tge same then go ahead but you’re not gonna find a long term partner there unless if you’re one of the lucky few
I don’t know a lot of people that use dating apps but in my anecdotal experience all the male friends I know that use them are actually looking for a good long-term relationship. But you’re probably right that they are a minority.
None of the men I know that are using the apps are looking for hookups. There are many such men, but there are lots of people looking for other stuff as well.
most men then
Same with my male friends. I also met my wife on an app. This might be more of a you experience thing.
Same with my guy friends as well. I met my wife on a dating app, and a couple of my friends did as well.
I also met my wife on an app.
ok so you’re one of those lucky few
Welp seeing as how garbage dating apps are due to being optimized to keep you using them instead of actually finding a longterm partner, and all being owned by about 2 or 3 different holding companies…
Might as well shoot my shot here:
36 m, opinionated autist seeking female autist within … i dunno, +/- 5 my age.
(trans fem ok, ambi gender ok, just please don’t be a fully advanced, PHD level bedroom = pigsty goblin)
For more details, see my comment history.
Brave that you’re using your Lemmy profile for your dating profile and that you’re willing to tie those comments to who who actually are in the real world.
If you can figure out who I am based on my Lemmy profile, I’ll be extremely impressed.
Yep, even giving out as much personal info as I have in my comment history.
I do not exist on any other social media sites.
Pretty sure I’ve never uploaded an image to lemmy that has any useful exif data, just download and repost memes.
I would also be impressed if even a mod or admin could geolocate me based on IP to an accuracy of better than a 100 mile radius.
Were I to theoretically find someone who wanted to move beyond messaging on lemmy… we’d be moving to signal.
Not saying its impossible, just saying I’d be impressed.
Okay MacGoober, my point was if you ever did meet anyone as a result of your post here, you’d be tying your profile to who you are IRL.
Only if the person I met decided to basically dox me.
But hey, that’s how trust works in a relationship, eh?
Gotta take that chance.
… I guess this all serves as a neat little illustration of how much I value privacy, haha.
I’d very much prefer someone similar, who isn’t attention/validation seeking on social media all the time, isn’t an ‘influencer’… isn’t really any kind of a public figure.
I’ve had too much drama in my life already thus far, and would ideally like someone who is also rather private and discreet.
Right? I’m using my real name for my BlueSky account and I end up having to delete almost every comment I make for the same reason. It’s a little paralyzing to have yourself on display like that.
It’s strange to admit that now, because I went to college in 2004 when Facebook was just getting big and literally everyone was on it. I miss those days. It’s hard to believe now with what an absolute shit show it has become, but early Facebook was wonderful. It genuinely made it easier to have a social life.
Early Facebook was cool, and then all our parents joined.
I nuked mine… a decade ago? Around when the Cambridge Analytica story broke.
oh honey…
I think we should make dating apps even worse, and just let humanity die out naturally.
This reminds me of the conversation I had with my co workers the other day. They basically warned don’t do to your 10th/15th year class reunion, especially if you’re in a relationship. All the girls who were used to constantly being in demand suddenly… aren’t. And they’re HORNY. And not in a very good way. In a very sad/depressing way.
Hey, can I come to your reunion?
Asking for a friend
I’m gonna tell you a secret, but you can’t share it ok?
X year reunions happen every year. Kids graduate every year.
I don’t really see the point in them anyway, why would I care about a dick measuring contest between people I no longer know
Are you’re kidding, that’s the best time to go. Make them regret their choices, both then and now.
Somehow I feel like this is wishful thinking.
Wishful thinking? It was a warning.
All the girls who were used to constantly being in demand suddenly… aren’t. And they’re HORNY. And not in a very good way. In a very sad/depressing way.
Had a friend who joked that if anyone questioned whether she was still hot, they only had to count the rings.
But to do that you’d have to cut her in half
I’m always surprised to hear people unimpressed with others on dating apps. A couple of my friends have shared their “feeds” and I was struck by how many good-looking people are out there. But they would swipe away from just the smallest turn-offs becoming deal breakers. Like if I saw these people in real life, I would think of them as average looking at worst, many being remarkably attractive. This is in the 20s to mid 30s range like the tweet. I definitely understand deciding you’re incompatible based on politics or religion or culture but most of the time it would be for minor quirks. It felt like they were spoiled for choice in my eyes.
But then again, they’re in serious long term relationships with conventionally attractive and supportive partners now so maybe being picky pays off. At the time, their reluctance to settle was a very frustrating experience for them.
Reluctant to settle, spoiled for choice, great ways of describing the situation.
the apparently-bottomless firehose of faces that makes you desensitized, the anonymous dismissal of them makes you callous.
The apps are just another dopamine slot machine, so the companies don’t care and in fact would rather keep people in their app.
‘Look at all these people that think I’m pretty, who I could have if I wanted to.’’
It’s the mirror from Snow White, but it lies better the more you pay it, the more time you spend staring at it.
Skinner box.
Wire the rat up to stimulate its pleasure receptors if it pushes button.
Rat will push button untill it dies of dehydration.
Any dating app that was any good at its stated aim wouldn’t be able to make enough money to survive.
By definition dating apps don’t want you to meet a partner, they want you addicted to swiping and tapping and almost finding a partner. If you hook up a few times along the way then that’s just a secondary benefit and keeps that carrot dangling in front of you.
Yeah, if you actually find someone app usage will drop for at least some people, maybe even most people. The more exclusive some/many folks are the less they’ll open the app. Up to finding someone(s) that fully satisfy them for at least a while, and for that while that user may even be completely off the app. Maybe they even delete it. Certainly they won’t compulsively be using it the same way they are when they are trying to connect.
For many (not all) users, successfully finding connections is detrimental to engagement, advertising, active user stats, etc. The incentives for the company are not geared towards helping users connect, and are geared towards always having users continually trying to connect.
There’s definitely a lot of people who overestimate what they bring to a relationship, and I think women are more prone to it than men because they’re typically the ones being pursued.
Dating is hard for everyone in one way or another, and, speaking as one, several ways for those who look pretty dead average but have trouble socializing and really only go between home and work. I don’t even feel like I’m that picky; no cigarettes, no kids, yes empathy, and a complementary flavor of weird/neurodivergence.
It’s hard for weirdos to find other weirdos because all weirdos have some level of social anxiety. Ask me how I know.
Make a lemmy community for dating.
l mean, yea, weird, but not that weird.
I wouldn’t want to meet other Lemmy users in person, let alone date them.
Being a Lemmy person isn’t a great point of connection but it would be nice to see how they interact with other users in other Lemmy communities.
Hot! 🔥🔥 Check your dms!
The last DM I got was Nicole, sadly.
I would, but you’d be too anxious to respond! (yes whoosh, I get it)
Pokemon Go will probably net you 2 of those at least.
Your weirdo will appear.
Survivorship bias.
:(
I am putting it out there for him. It’s all circumstance and luck.
I read this first as “it’s all circumcision and luck”. lmao
Free circumcison for the first guy to date! 🥳
Sounds like the basis for a musical number.
Sometimes the no kids thing, can be a huge red flag, a lot of the incel / women hating types put no kids. There’s a lot of them out there and they’re really extreme, you might be limiting your dating pool by wanting someone who doesn’t have kids but then if you’re into never having kids, that’s a different thing, entirely.
It’s not necessarily a billboard I put up stating that I don’t want kids. I made the decision long ago, partially based on my upbringing and now the current world situation, to never have children, so I checked the boxes saying I don’t have, and don’t want, children. That’s it.
first thing I tell my gf’s is I dont is don’t want kids. one was of agreement and now we have been together 10 years and got all sorts of money to spend to travel and pursue expensive dreams. Plus what if I had a ugly child I’d have to hug it? (just kidding)
I never wanted to have kids, so that makes me an incel? We’ve lost the plot here, that’s fucking crazy, only women are allowed to be childfree now? And also I have heard if a guy likes children it’s also a red flag? So I’m either a child molester or an incel? I’ll take incel I guess, interesting “would you rather.”
I think you might just be wrong on this one, it’s entirely possible that men too don’t feel like bringing a kid into *gestures vaguely at everything.*
Millennial here. Have recently dabbled with the apps. Honestly the guys I was shown were not objectively bad looking. Many of them were pretty attractive. But not my type at all. My interests were books and video games and nerdy sweetness…and it kept recommending me muscle gym divorced military dads. So I gave up.
I don’t blame you. The algorithm is gonna force you to look at what people your demographic like despite whatever input you give it. At least it seems this way with how algorithms in general seem to work on social media. The amount of dick pill ads I get is way to high.
Isn’t society like that in general?
Yeah at first it is. The algorithm learns about you over time and it gets a little better with regular use. It still has a bit of a blind spot around nerd/geek culture.
Literally fuck algorithms. Anything that has one is dead to me, if at all possible.
Yes, they literally are fuck algorithms. 🤣
Not a fan of how corporations make them work myself but understanding a little about them can make things like this a little less frustrating.
I would argue that the existence of an algorithm isn’t inherently evil, they just ruin things when they’re designed to maximize profit.
Is it really in the apps interest to find your perfect partner or just ones that bring you back to the app again and again?
I’m not convinced they’re looking out for your best interests.
It may be more profitable to have regular success stories getting churned. The algo looks out for the best interests of the company’s profit. Sometimes things line up.
A fair point, so it’s in its favour to help maybe a tiny percentage find a tiny bit of success and then promote that success while everyone else pays.
Yeah. It’s just profit, whatever makes line be as up as possible. I doubt there’s any regard, good or bad, for the user’s experience beyond that.
I wondered about that too. I certainly didn’t see any profiles to match my interests. I wondered if “my type” just didn’t use the apps at all.
It’s all conjecture. I suspect the algorithm puts it towards the bottom of the stack because there’s more money in casting a conventional net.
Most likely, this is because the nerds who know how to present themselves have already gotten nabbed by some girl. Nerds who are unable to present themselves well are relegated to the bottom of the pile, since nearly all women will swipe left on them. Jacked, divorced military dads are at least jacked, which is something many women find appealing, so they end up higher on the stack.
Yeah, I think you make a great point here. Most of my gamer friends are couples with children. Unfortunately, I have no interest in jacked dudes at all, but I think most people probably do lean into that on dating sites. I figure at this point and age if I meet someone, great. If not, I’ll be fine.
Which app? Cause I can’t find the nerdy girls.
The algorithm just pushes all these women who are wanting someone who will house them and take them on worldly vacations.
I tried bumble and hinge, got the ick, and gave up. Yeah, I’ve heard people saying something similar; going on about women looking to be housed. It’s such a huge turnoff and it makes me consider their financial insecurity, to be honest.
Most people seem to accept living on debt or handouts. It’s strange. I see everyone around me (both sexes) acting the same. So it’s not even a dating app issue, I think it’s a people issue. Offer nothing and expect everything in return. Maybe it’s an American thing?
I don’t want to be grouped into incel mentality, but is there a dating app to meet people from another country?
I don’t know, it could be your immediate environment. I certainly noticed this behavior in some friend groups, but not others. I don’t think you need to go that far to avoid the behavior. Just be vigilant and expect reciprocity.
What kind of nerd stuff? You like Pokemon? 3D printers? D&D?
After the third/fourth gen of Pokémon I kinda lost interest. Whenever it was they started being jet skis.
Add tower defense and sim games to the list though. DnD based games, although I’ve played tabletop from time to time, just too much of an introvert to join a random group.
Anyways, when you’re swiping in my age range there aren’t a lot of folks with these interests in my area. Maybe I’m too old and get shown whatever.
I think a lot of nerdy people need to just start going outside and doing stuff. Like, if you enjoy DND roll up to the local hobby store and start hanging out, even if you arent playing.
None of this is targeted directly at you, just as good a spot as any to rant… lol
I think more people would be surprised that the horror stories are the minority. At my local game story I go to a painting night once a month mostly to hang out and chat. There are a pretty even split of women/men.
Point is I think this a safe spot to make friends and making friends is the only way to get into a relationship you’ll actually enjoy.
I met my girlfriend doing Star wars rp. My friend met his girl playing magic l. All my single friends have something in common. They don’t make time for their hobbies and don’t hang out with like minded people in that space.
Just a side note I’m not saying that everyone should go harass people at their FLGS or use it as a dating service, but rather, going out and hanging out with like minded people opens up a lot of options that aren’t on dating apps.
I’m pretty introverted too but when people are into whatever my hyper focus is it’s much easier to open up. Go out there! Be uncomfortable! Not a cure all but it’s something.
For me, the biggest impediment is really having to work a full time job. And being in my late 30s, a lot of these activities are described to be for 20-30s in the meetups app. I agree though, I’ve met some nice people at gaming stores when I was younger and had the energy. So this is good advice.
Freaking Star Wars RP. Spectacular!
Let’s see, I’m in an entire server where people your age are playing pokemon tabletop. Ok, it’s not even funny anymore. I wanted to make a joke about how I’m single and into those things, but it really is like that.
I’d be interested in the server. Why are you making the joke? It’s okay to be single.
I’d be interested on the server as well, depending on if you guys play around evening time in my timezone (GMT).
Here you go\2
The joke is well we are pretty much the same, but complain about not being able to find partners. Reality: because we don’t want to. Lemmy users are not so different from Reddit users.
Ah yes, both big dumb pandas. At least were fluffy…? :)
I’m lean and short 🤣
Barely any tummy.
muscle gym divorced military dads
I know a bunch of these dudes, and most of them are into books and video games.
Something about the RPG grind mechanic in certain video games and a typical strength/barbell progression program scratch the same itch, so people who tend to be into one are also into the other.
That’s very interesting…I’ll have to take your word for it. My ex was in the military and my experience was…not that. I’m sure some are wonderful people.
As a single (Maybe neurodivergent?) 30 year old male, what other option I have?
Leave the house and find a hobby that women might also be into. Computers, cars? Mostly male dominated hobbies/women are afraid to actually go. Dance class? Now that’s fun, good exercise, and forces you to interact with other people, and there’s plenty of women there. Just make sure it’s something you’re at least kinda into. If you lie about your interest they’re gonna know and dislike you.
The other day I went to a watch party for the show Love Island and not joking, it was > 10 women to 1 man. I think there was over 100 women in that tiny room (definitely a fire code violation). But as soon as I started talking to a group about the show they were all over it.
This can backfire too though, since women assume any man coming to these events is just looking to hook up, so their guard is high. It’s also kind of shitty to make all extracurricular activities into dating events imo. People should have a space away from that pressure.
Honestly for me the best way to meet single is to have married friends who can play matchmaker. Of course that requires you to have friends, which brings us back to square one.
When the ratio is that high, you can be certain there will also be women looking to hook up.
I can vouch that the friend of a friend connection works really well.
It’s also kind of shitty to make all extracurricular activities into dating events imo
You are telling me im not allowed to date. I personally hate going out to social events alone, its nerve racking, it makes my skin crawl. The ONLY reason I would consider it is because the alternative is I will never meet new people, and thus I will have a dating pool of 0 people. You don’t go out to social groups like some sort of creep hitting on every person, you go out to find people you enjoy spending time with, and maybe some of them are also people you consider pursuing romantically.
People should have a space away from that pressure.
Id argue that a social group is not and should never be that place, and that if you think it should be you should reflect on what responsibility a person has for their own emotions.
As someone who is overly worried about making myself an outcast for ever admitting my intentions with someone, but who knows this is just a fabrication of my own fear of rejection, it really upsets me to hear someone effectively confirming my own neurotic fabricated mindset. But again, this is my emotion, and is my own responsibility.
Honestly for me the best way to meet single is to have married friends who can play matchmaker
While this might work for you, id warn against externalizing the responsibility of finding you a date, because if they stop doing it, you stop dating.
I mean the flip side of what you are saying is that people aren’t allowed to have a social life free from romantic pursuit. Yes, it’s a thin line to walk but you are only seeing the view from a person with limited romantic opportunities, not the person who is tired of every social interaction being hijacked by dude number 67897 “out to find people you enjoy spending time with, and maybe some of them are also people you consider pursuing romantically.”
Like I totally get your perspective here. Doing things, and then… Organic relationship with no pressure. That’s ideal. The problem is that horny dudes hold this ideal in their head, and then use it to justify blowing up every coed activity in existence. You might think, “ok, if she says no, I’ll drop it” but the counterpoint is that this ritual becomes a chore for the other side of the fence. You are socially awkward, now imagine that any time you socialize in a group you have to awkwardly defend against someone’s iterative advances. And that this happens so often, it begins to color the way you interact with every acquaintance.
Yes, meeting people in group settings often leads to dates. But going into those settings with the intention to find a date is a recipe for problems. This is a subtle, but important distinction which seems lost on a lot of people.
But going into those settings with the intention to find a date is a recipe for problems
Here is the disconnect. You are working in the context of the fumbling weirdo who doesn’t understand when the answer is no, or d-bag who thinks its just playing hard to get and he needs to pursue harder, the person that is just “on the hunt” all the time. First you are missing the context of the thread, they were never talking about them, and we cannot always be saying ideas and opinions with 20 disclaimers all the time (this message doesn’t mean go out and treat social groups like speed dating, etc…) However to avoid those people you are making a blanket statement to everyone that people shouldn’t go and socialize and attempt to find romantic partners because we might accidentally enable a group of people who were going to do that anyways.
Unfortunately there will always be clumsy/annoying/overly-aggressive pursuits, and i can appreciate how exhausting that must be; but at the same time, I have to deal with mindless assholes everywhere, men who for whatever reason let their ego steer every interaction of their whole life (small dick energy), while it might be their fault that they could recolor how i perceive socializing, it is my responsibility to accept this is a fact of life, that it is unavoidable without extreme anti-social costs on myself, and learn to deal with it the best way i can. We cannot change others, we can only change how we react and feel about others.
I am also guessing this might be a difference of social bubbles, id imagine you might be in your 20’s, or maybe in a place in the world where its more acceptable for men to be uncaring about a persons comfort with being approached, this kind of stuff is quite rare in my social groups. If one of my friends was being made uncomfortable in this type of situation they would only need to flash the “I’m uncomfortable eyes” to the group and someone would go calmly pull them out of it and back into the group, and if it was a person in the group doing that, and couldn’t move on, they would be removed from the group.
join IRL clubs, the first 5 to 10 times you go it’ll be painfully awkward, and I mean painful.
and the 5 few clubs you try will also feel painfully awkward.
but you’ll find a club you can’t wait for the next meeting. and you’ll make real IRL friends and connections.
just force yourself to attend.
Stop giving a fuck about that, work hard, eat right & exercise, get some great guy friends, community, get some hobbies you love.
It’s a great part of the human experience, but it’s not worth rushing or forcing a fit. I know a handful of guys that forced the fit, wasn’t worth it when they got run through the divorce courts. 😔
Thanks, right message at the right time!
Book clubs.
Casting a wider net.
Some people just have to work harder in certain fields than others. You’re skills may be in building, writing, gardening or something else but they’re not in attracting a wide variety of matches and that’s ok. I also suck at making dating profiles, don’t photograph well and don’t have the most interesting job.
I just need to put in more hours on Hinge and reach out to more people than a friend of mine who says he just opens the app and can get a date within the hour.
For context, if I’m actively looking I can usually swing one or two dates a month which is fine for my schedule as I work and have other things I’m doing in my free time. I’m also in my 30s so am matching with people who also have busy schedules which makes scheduling even harder.
38 year old man here: you’re gonna be alone whether your dick’s in a woman or not. If you want companionship get a golden retriever and if you want your dick serviced be advised the Japanese do some pretty interesting things with silicone rubber these days.
No disrespect, I really dig your style. But man, this comment section keeps on giving 😂
So does the golden retriever!
My husband is 38, we’re eachothers best friend. Feeling alone even in company is a sign of depression, which we both have, and both have had, since we were children.
I’m glad to be there for him on his off days, and he’s there for me in mine. That’s what it’s about no? He doesn’t see me as a “dick servicer” though, so maybe that’s the difference.
I’m sorry you so feel alone no matter what though, must be difficult getting through some days
I don’t believe you. I do not believe a woman is there for a man in his off days. I’ve never seen that. Women do not support men, supporting a man is misogyny. They go on social media claiming to be “strong and independent” always in that order, and demanding heights and salaries that they will begrudgingly fuck for. “You take me on enough expensive dates and I might stoop to fucking you.”
That’s what the modern online-only strangers-only dating scene looks like. You will be alone with or without these women.
Look up “spool of wire guy.”
Our first date was a walk in the park because we couldn’t decide. We walked for hours. I felt safe enough to even go back to his spot after where we smoked cannabis and talked still, for many more hours. Our first date was like 6 hours long and cost nothing but a bit of gas for the drive.
The spool of wire guy, is that the fella who’s sitting outside reminiscing when he first bought that giant spool of wire and now it was gone? A very sweet, sentimental moment for thst guy.
Not gonna lie, some women are like that I’ve heard. I’ve never been friends with those types. Shallow people gonna shallow. Before I met my husband, most commonly my first dates were usually bar dates, where I would pay my own drink, or be turned down when I went to pay for it. I’ll insist to pay, but if they insist again to pay, I’d let them, and in response to a free drink, I’d tip the server that extra instead. That was my personal code.
Of course, dating online from me started 15 years ago, and ended 7 years ago when I met my love. What’s it like today? I don’t know. If I didn’t have my husband I know I wouldn’t go back to an app today everything humans touch has been heavily monetized, if even before it was only lightly monetized. I always used Plenty of Fish, idk if that matters.
It’s not good to generalize men, nor is is good to generalize women. You end up boxing yourself in. Better to treat each person you meet with no expectations, and you’ll never be disappointed. I’ve had some guys I’ve dated do really shitty things. There are guys who are willing to talk to you everyday for six weeks, spend two weeks more to hit the three date marker, sleep together, and then- they ghost. Some men will put two months of effort in to get laid, then ghost. It hurts a lot, especially when you think you have connection.
I never let it make me resentful towards all men, because I’ve also dated total sweethearts, they’re out there. I found one. Im lucky.
Keep hope, and maybe you will too. I truly believe I was able to score such a baddie (who btw at the time had the same income as I did) because for the year and a half leading up to him I did a lot of self work. Not working out, but addressing my flaws, my judgements, my quick temper. Stress management was what I needed most. Just at the moment I felt nearly whole as a single, I met my husband.
I serve him coffee in the morning, not because he expects it, in fact if I ask, he’ll say “no I’m going to get up in a second”, so I don’t ask, I just bring him one. I do it because for one, I like doing acts of service, it’s self serving as it makes me feel like im being helpful, and in return I feel good. It’s totally selfish first because “he’ll think I’m sweet and appreciate it if I do this for him”. The “aw babes you didn’t have to” gives me dopamine like nothing else. He always denies my help, so I deny asking and just find ways I can. It doesn’t go unappreciated, he is always greatful, and if I bring him coffee four days in a row, and on the fifth day don’t, he doesn’t even mention it, he’ll get up, kiss me and ask if I want Dunkin. He supports himself without complaint, and is always appreciative. My doing kind things is “extra” for him, and I feel the same. (Lol edit: I could absolutely describe my husband and strong and independent)
I’ve dated men who you bring coffee for four days, and not on the fifth, they’ve now expected my service, and complain. Some will even poke, “why didn’t you bring me coffee today? Are you mad? Did I do something?” And it would turn to a fight. Those men, are not the type I entertain much longer. As soon as I don’t feel appreciated and like I’ve expectations not my own, placed on me by someone else, I am out.
But second, my husband deserves it. Because whether I look good or like shit, whether I bust ass and handle business, or I lay on the couch frozen depressed, he still loves me the same. He’s earned my service over and over and over again, just by being a kind and helpful human to me over the years. So I return the kindness with more.
And to be honest, I don’t always know how to support him on depressed days. I don’t think he knows what to do for me either, but we both respond to each other’s moments with thst kindness. I’ll make a special dessert for him, or run an errand he doesn’t want to run that day. I make myself available if he wants to talk, He does similar for me. I annoy him sometimes with “is there anything I can do for you to help?” But I still ask, and give him love when he says no or idk. Sometimes what he needs is space, (hey me too) and we do that for eachother.
Give kindness and you get it back. It’s so silly but it’s how I’ve lived. It hasn’t shielded me from pain, but it sure does make more opportunity for kind moments in life. If you’re looking for a fight, you will find one. If your looking to spread kindness, you’ll find that returned too.
Best of luck out there, I know it’s tough. I hope you find someone, even if it’s a dog or a friend or a life partner, that shows you the kindness your heart needs.
Edit: it’s so corny, and I doubt you’ll watch it. But as a teenager I watched the movie “Under the Tuscan Sun”. Its a cheesy film, but with a really sweet message.
The woman is looking for love, and finds it, but not in the way she expected, it’s very sweet and I think helped me personally, in those formative years to drop expectations or at least, allow room for them to adjust. If you’re feeling lonely, no one will know you watched an old chick movie, and it might help you feel better to look at love differently as the woman is faced to in the movie. No one has to know you watched it lol
Yeah, I can see why you got the old nut and bolt, if that’s your take from Dan The Spool Of Wire Man. You didn’t get it anymore than his wife did. “I’ve had this spool of wire for 40 years, it used to be this big, now it’s about out.” He’s having some pretty heavy thoughts about his life, where he is in it, how much of it is left, what it’s all meant. And before he even gets a real chance to articulate all that, didn’t even get a chance to get to the feelings part, his wife interrupts him to give him shit about his hat. And just watch him shut down.
A woman that views that clip and perceives it as a “sweet sentimental moment” isn’t empathizing with men. Those men that pumped and dumped you, that you thought you felt a connection with? Yeah they didn’t, and I can see why. Gave you the old Phillip J. Fry: Just make up some feelings and tell her you have them.
As for all that crap about cups of coffee…In my home, if I want something to drink, I prepare it and drink it. If I want something to eat, I cook it and eat it. I’ve been single for a shade over 5 years now and not a single meal in my house has turned into a game of feelings jenga. And if I’m going to live the next 40 years of my life alone, sleeping alone, waking alone, eating alone, drinking alone, working alone, resting alone, dying alone, it will be a bargain price to pay to never again emotionally posture over who makes a fucking cup of coffee.
I didn’t watch the whole video not gonna lie. Sorry about that, maybe the clip I saw wasn’t the whole thing, because I missed all that.
Im glad you’re preparing for your loneliness. The men of my father’s gen didn’t seem as prepared as you. I didn’t know being kind to my love was “a feelings game”. We don’t see it that way, but least you know who you are, that’s good.
Have a good day and best of luck to you in your endeavors.
Edit, watched the whole clip. I thought to review it yesterday and didn’t, my bad honestly, I wish I had. I see what you mean now. I totally missed the wife’s role when I barely saw it months ago. Saw where he says, okay I’m done.
Remembering why I dismissed the video, and many videos- because who goes to check on their partner with their phone in hand like that? What type of person, sees their husband feeling emotional and drags out their phone to record them? Its weird. The whole thing is fucking wierd to me. If my husband came out to me, phone in my face, my first address before speaking would be why are you recoding me? Stop.
I don’t know these people, and I am certainly not about to assign a generalization to society based off these two folks encounter. She is being dismissive in a moment he is being introspective. How many times have generders been reversed, or the same as eachother, where one person is being insightful/ introspective, and another human comes along to rag on them about it? We also don’t know what these two history is, nor do I care. Time fascinates me, especially it’s passage, 40 years is a long time, I get the sentiment, which is why I only remembered his voice not hers when recalling my memory of the video.
Im not going to base my own outlook on life on some person not understanding the sentiment, she was recording, why was she recording? She clearly had the joke in her head already, it would not have mattered what he said, she was already planning to say that it seems. The type of person who records/uploads videos of their family so often if fills a data center probably doesn’t have much introspection themselves. Those types I’m not friends with. It’s so weird. The dude was totally having a moment, and a sweet one at that, and yeah, she turns it to a joke. “Aww can’t you take a joke?” I can hear the voices from people who have said this to me. This isn’t some isolated incident- like, raise your hand if youve had a sentimental moment interrupted by someone being rude for laughs.
Anyway, agree with you about the video, still hold a different outlook on finding and holding love.
Wishing you the best man, I’ll give the next dog I meet extra pets for being a good boy in your honor.
nooo! can’t you see, as a male, that you want to be with a woman means you’re sexist, because you’re reducing the women to something that you want to be with for your own well-being. how selfish of you. men are the blight of society!
i’m so sick of today’s “feminism” which plays women and men against each other, setting society up for a great divide, all to distract from actual issues such as social safety-nets, eroding wages and exploitative working conditions.
I’ve given up entirely on relationships at this point. Anyone who is willing to date a trans guy is “poly” and I am absolutely done with that shit.
Hookups suck but it’s a distraction from how shit the world is.
I’ve given up entirely on relationships at this point
Perfect! You’ll meet your person when you least expect it. There’s a big day coming for you.
Anyone in Oklahoma want to go geocaching lol
